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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2011, 09:01 AM
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Re: Guidance For Bloodline Colouring Please

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Originally Posted by simplysardonic View Post
I don't recall seeing what the OP's dogs were crossed with, surely this would be important to determine what health tests would be needed
I would imagine breeding crosses ethically takes even more care & effort than pedigrees, not to mention expense if both breeds being used were to be tested
Absolutely - moreso once you get into second generation crosses - in this instance, from what I can ascertain - one dog is half rottie - half unknown and the other is full rottie - but the dog looks like a Lab (Physically, particularly since the docking ban, there is more than an element of physical similarity between Rotties and Labs) and of course, they share some of the same health-test requirements, but also different ones.

The dog has mismarks, which could easily have come from a Lab or Rottie, but could just as easily have come from an 'unknown'

The key issue here is 'the unknown' - if you couldn't find out - which tests would you chose? it would be almost barbaric to test for every single condition - some health tests are not intrusive - others are unpleasant - to do them all yet to have any degree of confidence that you could produce healthy dogs, this is the route you would have to go.

It almost makes the breeding of F2 Labradoodles seem easy and straightforward - which of course it isn't - because both parents need a barrage of health-tests first over and above those of their pedigree counterparts
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2011, 05:27 PM
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Re: Guidance For Bloodline Colouring Please

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Originally Posted by comfortcreature View Post
I have been studying this topic for years and have lots of links saved, which I'll post later as my pups are upset I'm stopping this long (walk time).

Many color genes and their inheritance patterns are similar across all dogs breeds (and in fact across many mammalian species). There are some very specific mutations that occur only in certain breeds however.

One of the very difficult things to work through, I find, for many that ask on this topic, is that there are MANY color genes that create a color and pattern in a dog, and you have to consider the interaction of all of them.

Another difficulty is actually knowing the color of the adult dog - as with many dogs the colors have changed since birth through modifiers. It is through the birth colour that you'll be able to figure out the genes the best.

An example of this would be Yorkshire Terrier pups. Yorkies are genetically a't'/a't (black and tan) on the agouti locus, just like Rottweillers in fact, but both breeds have different modifiers that contribut to making the colors look very different to eachothers in adulthood -a Yorkie's tan creeps into the black and modifiers lighten the coloring.

Anyway --- off for a walk, but before I do go here is one site that is quite good.

Dog Coat Colour Genetics

Feel free to post the colors/photos of the parent/grandparent dogs and I'll help you through what they might produce.
CC


Could colours be worked out on a Tibetan Terrier litter??

Grandmother - Tri colour
Mother - Gold sable with white markings
Grandfather - Gold sable


Grandmother - Black with tan markings
Father - Black
Grandfather - Black

Last edited by Lucylewis0; 07-09-2011 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:09 PM
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Re: Guidance For Bloodline Colouring Please

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Originally Posted by Lucylewis0 View Post
Could colours be worked out on a Tibetan Terrier litter??

Grandmother - Tri colour
Mother - Gold sable with white markings
Grandfather - Gold sable


Grandmother - Black with tan markings
Father - Black
Grandfather - Black
From the Tibetan Terrier Breed Standard

Colour
White, golden, cream, grey or smoke, black, parti-colour and tricolours; in fact any colour except chocolate or liver permissible.

It probably could - but way beyond my knowledge levels particularly as it seems any colour bar chocolate is permissable - I will have to seek them out at a show as I am curious now - it must make for quite a colourful display - or do they tend to be reasonably standard colours?

I did try Googling it - but I could only find one website link with anything on it - and that was simply "under construction" - hopefully someone will be along soon who can advise you more - or why not start a thread on it?

ETA - do you find prospective owners have colour preferences, or because they are low in numbers, people are just happy for a puppy? It can be fun in Labs if you are expecting 2 or 3 colours with most people having a preference for colour and gender - could be fun if colours are 'open ended ' !!

Last edited by swarthy; 07-09-2011 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:37 PM
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Re: Guidance For Bloodline Colouring Please

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Originally Posted by swarthy View Post
From the Tibetan Terrier Breed Standard

Colour
White, golden, cream, grey or smoke, black, parti-colour and tricolours; in fact any colour except chocolate or liver permissible.

It probably could - but way beyond my knowledge levels particularly as it seems any colour bar chocolate is permissable - I will have to seek them out at a show as I am curious now - it must make for quite a colourful display - or do they tend to be reasonably standard colours?

I did try Googling it - but I could only find one website link with anything on it - and that was simply "under construction" - hopefully someone will be along soon who can advise you more - or why not start a thread on it?

ETA - do you find prospective owners have colour preferences, or because they are low in numbers, people are just happy for a puppy? It can be fun in Labs if you are expecting 2 or 3 colours with most people having a preference for colour and gender - could be fun if colours are 'open ended ' !!

I find it very very interesting -I would love to learn more about colour gentics

Yes TT's some in all colours (we always have a colourful collection in the ring )- I have met a few chocolate TT's they are stunning! But they always lose the black pigment and often have very light eyes.

TT's must have a black nose, black eye rims and dark eyes in the show ring... Lots of the lighter colors also lose the pigment too...

My last litter

Mother was Tri
Father was a gold sable

Puppies produced -
2 gold sable with white markings
1 gold sable
1 red and white
1 gold (almost white now)

I have had lots of puppy inquiries resently and everybody wants golds!!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2011, 06:51 PM
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Re: Guidance For Bloodline Colouring Please

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Originally Posted by Lucylewis0 View Post
I find it very very interesting -I would love to learn more about colour gentics

Yes TT's some in all colours (we always have a colourful collection in the ring )- I have met a few chocolate TT's they are stunning! But they always lose the black pigment and often have very light eyes.

I can tell you pretty much anything you want to know about Lab Colour coat inheritance - unfortunately - being whole coloured breeds - I suspect it won't be of much use to you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucylewis0 View Post
TT's must have a black nose, black eye rims and dark eyes in the show ring... Lots of the lighter colors also lose the pigment too...
There are products that can help pigmentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucylewis0 View Post
I have had lots of puppy inquiries resently and everybody wants golds!!
what a shame; with Labs - it is relatively easy to get your preferred colour from a responsibly bred litter whatever the buyers preference (although you can almost guarantee there will be few puppies available of the 'colour of the moment' )

Good breeders breed for what they want - but it can be very frustrating for people on the waiting list unless your litter is single colour. I've colour coat tested my youngsters - but haven't tested any of my older dogs - some people have an idea of what colour(s) their pairing will produce from the dogs in the pedigrees - but mother nature likes to skew the statistics in terms of colours

A while ago, there was a black dog carrying chocolate and yellow mated to a chocolate bitch who carried yellow - all the pups were yellow - similarly I've known breeders pair black carrying yellow and chocolate to black carrying yellow and chocolate and get an all black litter.

Will definitely have to check this breed out at a show
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