Maiden bitch - when to premate

pearltheplank · #1 (**permalink**) 28-02-2011, 02:03 PM

If you have a maiden bitch who bleeds throughout her season, when would you start the pre mate testing? Ovulation pads, waste of time?

My local vet do in house tests at £70 a throw, which I believe from reading, is excessive. Seeing some comments about Idexx, how does that work? I assume your vets draws bloods and they/you send then off?

Tanya1989 · #2 (**permalink**) 28-02-2011, 02:17 PM

Yes... off to find my previous thread

Tanya1989 · #3 (**permalink**) 28-02-2011, 02:23 PM

Here it is

Quote:

By far the most accurate way of predicting ovulation in a bitch. Progesterone levels begin to rise after pro-oestrus and increase through heat. They reach specific levels through ovulation, which means that this is a quantitive way of predicting ovulation, therefore a more accurate way. This test is done in a laboratory (the most popular being Idexx) or in house (no where near as accurate), but firstly, a blood sample must be take from the dog at the vets. The vets should then forward this onto the laboratory that same day. With Idexx, the results are given back to you the following day. Idexx also recommend when it is you go to mate the dog or if another test is needed (usually 2-3 days later if the progesterone level was too low for an accurate prediction of ovulation). The units they deliver the results in are normally ng/ml (nanogram per millilitre of blood) nmol/L (nanomol per litre). Ovulation occurs at approximately 5ng/ml or 15-20nmol/L.

It is recommended with the average bitch to do the first test at around day 9. For bitches that have been previously difficult to get in whelp or "missed", it maybe worth while starting early in the season, possibly even day 4.

Interpretting the results:
This is the potocol I use to interpret blood progesterones its in nmol/l

To convert to Progesterones in ng/ml MULTIPLY BY 3.18 = progesterone in nmol/l

To convert nmmol/l DIVIDE BY 3.18 = progesterone in ng/ml

0-2 nmol/L Baseline concentrations too early to estimate ovulation

3 - 6 nmol /L Minimum 2 days before ovulation expected however result of 3 - 4 nmol/L may persist for a week or longer before increasing. Earliiest estimating breeding 4 - 6 days but could be longer (re test needed)

7 - 12 nmol/L Minimum 1 day before ovulation. Estimated window for breeding 3 - 5 days but could be longer ( re test recommended)

13 - 18 nmol/L Ovulation impending or just occurred. Estimated breeding window 2 - 4 days

19 - 31 nmol/L Ovulation recently occurred. Estimated breeding window 1 - 3 days

32 - 64 nmol/L Ova have matured, optimal potential for fertility. Estimated breeding window 0 - 2 days

65 - 90 nmol/L Ova have matured but aging, decreased potential for fertility. Breed at once

Above 90 nmol/L Too late

Inhouse testing is nowhere near as accurate, and very much relies on the eye of the interpretor. It is based on colour change. There is great room for error in the interpretting of the the results..... basically its a case of "Not ovulated" and "Ovulated" with very little grey area in between. The problem with this is that unless a huge series of these are done from relatively early on, if you miss when it changed from "not ovulated" to "ovulated" you are pretty much in the dark as to when ovulation occured, so you aren't aware of whether she will be in the fertile period or not.

If you ring idexx up and ask for a progesterone testing kit, they'll send you one out, which prevents the vets cocking up, with instructions to the vet. Ring round several vets and just ask them the price of drawing blood. Sometimes vets will charge a consult fee, but sometimes you are able to get the vet nurse to do it, consultation free, in which case it costs about £7 for the blood draw, then £25 (I think) for Idexx

Tanya1989 · #4 (**permalink**) 28-02-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Ovulation Pads
These pads are available online, and are relatively in comparison to the alternative forms of determining ovulation, but they are said to be unreliable. They work by inserting the pad into the vagina of the bitch and moistening the pad with the vaginal fluids. If the bitch has ovulated the pad changes from pink to purple.

Quote:

Saliva
During the fertile period a sample of normal saliva or cervical mucus when dried and examined under a microscope contains structures resembling ferns, these ferns are actually the dried crystallisaton of the electrolytes or salts that are evident during this dramatic increase in electrolytes (salts) present during ovulation. This can be a quite inaccurate way of predicting ovulation, as there is no actual quantitive measure, and bare it in mind some breeds hardly drool.

Quote:

Vaginal Cytology
A series of vaginal swabs are taken over a few days and are studied under a microscope. There is a surge of Lutenising Hormone (LH) when ovulation (releasing of the eggs). This hormone also causes secretions within the vagina to increase which makes the tissues along the vaginal walls to become hyperemic (engorged with blood). The cells which make up the tissue can be seen under the microscope, and indicate that ovulation is occuring. This method of predicting ovulation is only accurate if a series of swabs are taken and compared over a large number of days, ideally starting at day 4 of season (assuming ovulation occurs day 11).

All taken from my website

pearltheplank · #5 (**permalink**) 28-02-2011, 03:04 PM

Thank you Tanya, now going to bookmark your website

elizabethy1 · #6 (**permalink**) 29-03-2012, 03:48 AM

Wow! I really appreciate it! I want to write around my site something like that. Am I allowed to be involved of one's post to my blog?

Sleeping_Lion · #7 (**permalink**) 29-03-2012, 05:51 AM

Just a note in that even when using Idexx it isn't always straight forward, my maiden bitch was tested from around day 5 or 6, showed very little signs of her progesterone levels rising, I was testing every two days and she suddenly spiked to twice the level they were expecting. We got one slip mating, but definitely, definitely use her behaviour as an indicator as well, and if you've got access to dogs that can give you a clue, use them too. Tau flunked every test unfortunately, she was showing signs but didn't like the boys near her bum either, so it was just impossible to tell!

xanhnon · #8 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 07:25 AM

I don’t suppose I have read anything like this before. So it is nice to find somebody with some original thoughts on this subject. Thank you for what you have done!

swarthy · #9 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 07:51 AM

Have you explored exactly what your vet is offering for £70?

When I pre-mate, my vets have to buy the kit in as it is not a stock item - I pay for the kit (c£115) - and then they charge me £12.50 to draw blood and run the test.

I was lucky last time that my kit (I asked them to get the longest date possible) lasted me for two bitches a year apart.

The tests through my own vet were spot on on all three occasions, with my eldest bitch we started testing at 3 days and she was ready at day 8, her daughter we did the same just in case she was like her mother, she wasn't - she tested positive at around 13 days - you could have knocked me over with a feather as she wasn't standing - but she was ready.

Over the three litters we had day 8/9 matings - litter of 8, day 8/10 matings - litter of 9, and day 13/15 matings, litter of 7.

Based on Sleeping Lions experience, I would be erring on the side of caution if you are not in a position to take the tests there yourself - if a bitch has such a small window for mating, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility to miss her fertile period - there were a few of us here who were adamant her bitch was ready a good few days before the test spiked - it looks like she might have got lucky, but only just.

My eldest girl also bled throughout and stands for the duration of her season, being just gone 4 when she was first mated, we had a pretty clear handle that she was a day 8 bitch and the tests backed it up.

Bjt · #10 (**permalink**) 03-04-2012, 12:27 PM

Would it be worth me getting some of these tests done?.My bitch has just come out of season,she bled then stopped then humped everything in sight for a few days but wouldn't let the bitches hump her and didn't appear to stand.I wish to breed from her next season and the stud dog is 2 hours drive away,so i would prefer to only go there once.

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