to KC or not to KC

paşa's mummy · #1 (**permalink**) 13-02-2011, 11:48 AM

hi guys, thought this may be of interest to people who think that a puppy is 100% proof if it is KC reg. unfortunatly in the real world this is not true. please read breed standards before buying a pup and please read the following link. it opened my eyes even wider to the ignorance of the Kennel club.

Canine stretching and massage promoting good health

Old Shep · #2 (**permalink**) 13-02-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

hi guys, thought this may be of interest to people who think that a puppy is 100% proof if it is KC reg.

What do you mean by "100% proof"?
Where do the KC say that KC registered puppies are "100%" anything?

Quote:

unfortunatly in the real world this is not true

.

see above comment.

Quote:

please read breed standards before buying a pup and please read the following link. it opened my eyes even wider to the ignorance of the Kennel club.

Anyone who wants to buy a KC registered dog and hasn't even taken the trouble to look at the breed in detail is highly irresponsible and negligent.

While I do not for one second condone breeding purely for profit, puppy farms or the sale of dogs by petshops, I really don't see why this is the fault of the KC.

By reading about your chosen breed and carefully researching before purchasing a dog, you help to elliminate these unscrupulous breeders.

and just for information, if you purchase a dog from one of the KCs accredited breeders, do make sure the breeder in question has been visited and assessed by the KC and ask to see the outcome of the inspection. The KC has not yet actually visited all the breeders on the scheme as this takes time (obviously)

paşa's mummy · #3 (**permalink**) 14-02-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Shep

What do you mean by "100% proof"?
Where do the KC say that KC registered puppies are "100%" anything?

.

see above comment.

Anyone who wants to buy a KC registered dog and hasn't even taken the trouble to look at the breed in detail is highly irresponsible and negligent.

While I do not for one second condone breeding purely for profit, puppy farms or the sale of dogs by petshops, I really don't see why this is the fault of the KC.

By reading about your chosen breed and carefully researching before purchasing a dog, you help to elliminate these unscrupulous breeders.

and just for information, if you purchase a dog from one of the KCs accredited breeders, do make sure the breeder in question has been visited and assessed by the KC and ask to see the outcome of the inspection. The KC has not yet actually visited all the breeders on the scheme as this takes time (obviously)

i appreciate what u r saying, but i never said the KC said any of the above. what i was trying to say is people who do not know a great deal about dogs will buy a puppy purely on the fact that it is KC thinking it to be the best decission when it is not always so. when i went to buy my dog i went to see afew different litters but two in particular stuck in my mind. A kc litter and a non kc litter. the KC litter were kept in an outside dirty shed. mother of the litter look in poor health and the puppies were bad examples of the breed (i did report this to the RSPCA) i then went to see a non KC litter. these pups were a bill of health and everything a GSD pup should be as well as conforming to the breed standards in everything except they were white. both parents were there to be seen and both family pets. i personally have a low regard for the KC because of the contravercy over allowing closly related dogs breed< yes i do agree this is the breeders fault more but KC still gave reg papers to them, and i am allowed an opinion.

Bijou · #4 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 05:20 AM

arghhh...I don't know here to begin

...please don't believe all the hype - and don't base your judgement on one bad breeder !!- I'm a small hobby breeder and I think I'm far more typical of most who use the KC registry than the one you visited - take a look

www.simplesite.com/grondemon

It's up to puppy buyers to seek out the best breeders they can by contacting breed clubs, finding out about health test requirements, getting lists of breeders that comply with their breed club codes of ethics and going along to visit - the point about KC registration is that it enables breeders to have an accurate record of what lies behind their dogs -this is VITAL to trace any health issues or to predict how your pups will turn out - but no system can possibly guarantee that any living thing will be 100 % -

Amethyst · #5 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bijou

a
It's up to puppy buyers to seek out the best breeders they can by contacting breed clubs, finding out about health test requirements, getting lists of breeders that comply with their breed club codes of ethics and going along to visit - the point about KC registration is that it enables breeders to have an accurate record of what lies behind their dogs -this is VITAL to trace any health issues or to predict how your pups will turn out - but no system can possibly guarantee that any living thing will be 100 % -

Well said, many would be puppy owners don't seem to think they have any responsibility in finding a great puppy from good breeder.

cutekiaro1 · #6 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paşa's mummy

i appreciate what u r saying, but i never said the KC said any of the above. what i was trying to say is people who do not know a great deal about dogs will buy a puppy purely on the fact that it is KC thinking it to be the best decission when it is not always so. when i went to buy my dog i went to see afew different litters but two in particular stuck in my mind. A kc litter and a non kc litter. the KC litter were kept in an outside dirty shed. mother of the litter look in poor health and the puppies were bad examples of the breed (i did report this to the RSPCA) i then went to see a non KC litter. these pups were a bill of health and everything a GSD pup should be as well as conforming to the breed standards in everything except they were white. both parents were there to be seen and both family pets. i personally have a low regard for the KC because of the contravercy over allowing closly related dogs breed< yes i do agree this is the breeders fault more but KC still gave reg papers to them, and i am allowed an opinion.

this doesnt make sense. How can the non KC dogs be of breed standard if they are white

White is a serious fault in the shep with some believing that it is also the cause of some health/behavior issues.

Also why were they not KC reg........ there could be a number of reasons for this and non of them good. Another point....... you say they are pets.... so what is the point of breeding them

There are plenty of very well bred KC reg GSD's from either working or show dogs so there is no need for people to breed their pets. You also say that both parents are there to be seen which leads me to believe that they are both in the same house hold. The chances of them having a dog who is the best match for the female are slim.

You also cant possibly know weather the pups are of breed standard or not until they are fully mature. Pups change a lot. Everything from colour to size etc.

Things are not always as they seem. Just because the dogs looked well cared for does not mean they are being bred to standard or for the right reasons.

People need to do their own research when looking for a dog. It is up to the buyer to make sure they have fully researched the breed and the breeders. The KC are not 100% and prob never will be but if buyers were not so impulsive then most probably wouldnt have a problem

Spellweaver · #7 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paşa's mummy

i appreciate what u r saying, but i never said the KC said any of the above. what i was trying to say is people who do not know a great deal about dogs will buy a puppy purely on the fact that it is KC thinking it to be the best decission when it is not always so.

I'm with Old Shep, Bijou and Amethyst on this one. Puppy buyers have a responsibility to know what they are doing - not just by researching breeds, but by researching anything to do with buying the pup - and that means researching breeders and researching what KC registration really means as well.

Being KC registered is not in any way an indicator of health or fitness for function, and nowhere do the KC say it is. The KC registration is merely a list of a dog's family tree, which is a useful tool for the prospective buyer because there is nothing hidden - you can see exactly which dogs are in a pup's ancestry. A simple comparison from the human world is the Register of Births, Marriages and Deaths. If a prospective buyer has not done enough research to know that this is all KC registration means, then the prospective buyer is at fault.

The link you quoted starts off by talking about KC Accredited Breeders, which is an entirely different kettle of fish. An accredited breeder has to comply with a code of ethics, can earn accolades for good breeding, and will be investigated by the KC if complaints are made against them. However, from the second paragraph onwards, the author is talking about pups that are KC registered only, not pups bred by KC Accredited Breeders. That is why the KC said they could do nothing - a similar comparison would be expecting the Chief Registrar for the Register of Births, Marriages and Deaths to be responsible if a child whose birth had been registered developed diabetes or epilepsy.

raindog · #8 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 08:48 AM

KC registration is just ONE of a number of crucial factors to be considered in choosing a breeder for your new puppy. This is what we recommend in our breed (Siberian Huskies):

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If you decide a Siberian Husky is for you, how do you go about getting one? There are quite a lot of Siberian Husky breeders in the UK. Like most breeds the quality of dogs & breeders varies widely. A small proportion of breeders in the UK are reputable and responsible but most, unfortunately, are not. To the inexperienced it is often difficult to tell the difference.

Many breeders have websites. How can you tell from the website what kind of breeder they are? Check this article out - Looking for a Breeder Online

These are some of the indicators you can use to check breeders out.

Are the dogs being bred Kennel Club registered and are the pups KC registered. KC registration is not a 100% guarantee, but it is a strong indication that the pedigree of your dog is accurate and honest. If the mother, father or the pups are not KC registered, beat a hasty retreat at that point. Note: there are other dog registration organisations in the UK but their registrations are not worth the paper they are written on. If it ain’t KC, don’t buy it!

Do the breeders work and/or show their dogs? If not, why are they breeding? Most good breeders breed litters to improve their teams either for the showring, the trail or both. If they are doing neither you have to assume that their main motivation is cash! - not the best reason for breeding dogs

How easy do they make it to buy a puppy? If you don’t get the )friendly) third degree about your knowledge of the breed, the security of your house and garden etc, it is unlikely that they are a responsible breeder. Will they let you see the mum and dad and all their other dogs? You can learn a lot from the condition and temperament of the adult dogs in a breeder’s kennel. More often than not the breeder will have gone “outside” for a mating, so they won’t actually own the stud dog, but they should be able to show you pictures, pedigree and health certification for the dad as well as the mum.

Have the appropriate health tests for the breed been carried out on the parents? Although as a breed, the Siberian Husky is very healthy, all responsible breeders will screen their dogs for hereditary defects. In particular they should be checked for hip and eye defects. Ask if the parents of the puppies are tested and ask to see the results.

How old is the mother and how many litters has she had? No bitch should be bred before the age of 2 years or after the age of 7. There should be at least a year between successive matings and no bitch should have more than three litters in her lifetime.

Was the litter planned or was it “accidental”? If you are told that the litter can’t be registered because the mating was “accidental” and the bitch was too young/too old etc etc etc, walk away. Post mating contraceptive injections have been available from vets for years and there is no excuse for “accidental” matings. It is surprising how many bad breeders have “accidental” mating after “ accidental” mating.

Will the breeder expect you to sign a contract of sale in which you undertake to return the dog direct to the breeder if for any reason you cannot keep it, and in which you acknowledge that the dog has breeding/export restrictions on its KC papers and cannot be bred from without agreement from the breeder? All responsible breeders will insist upon this for the protection of the dog.

If you cannot tick ALL these boxes with a breeder, walk away and look elsewhere. In our opinion every single one of these conditions is crucially important in finding a good breeder.

KC registration alone is not enough to guarantee anyone a good quality, healthy puppy.

Mick

Cay · #9 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 09:33 AM

You need to look at the whole picture when buying a puppy. The presence of something like KC registration shouldn't excuse the lack of health testing, you can have it all if you spend just a couple of months researching what you should be looking for

.

paşa's mummy · #10 (**permalink**) 15-02-2011, 06:22 PM

can i just say, my dog is a german shepherd not a sheep dog. whites r not recognised and never have been but the only diff is the colour, there is nothing to indicate they suffer more health problems then a recognised black and tan or sable for instance, they also have a large following of lovers of the colours. and dont presume i didnt do my homework before buying. GSD's r my passion which is y i get annoyed when people get them only to stick in a rehoming centre cos they dont socialise them properly, allow enough time to train them and cause aload of problems for the next owner to sort out. i think u have miss understood what i was trying to get across.

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