arrgh, first time hopefully breeding a litter and have been planning it and waiting for the right time for what seems forever ( 5 years, both have had all health tests done, I am experienced with this breed, the lines were thoroughly researched with this in mind before anyone asks). my bitch is now on day 17, I thought her bleeding had stopped a couple of days ago but I've actually just swabbed her gently with a wipe and she is still bleeding. She isnt swollen at all. I know she doesnt have to be in order to mate, but my dog has been mounting her since Monday (day 14) but no tie,and initially I thought his aim was off. Actually, it appears he is spot on but unable to penetrate her so far. She has stood for him, like a rock, but I'm now wondering if that was because they are familiar to one another (i own both) rather than her actually being 'ready'. However today, she seems bored of him and keeps trying to lie down. It was suggested to me that perhaps she is now coming out of season but surely if Im still getting a blood stain she isnt? Im hoping and keeping everything crossed that she is a late girl and would love some reassurance from those with dogs that are day 20's etc.

Unfortunately, bitches don't tend to read the rule books.

All of mine bleed right through - from day 1 to day 21, so far - these girls have had litters from day 8/9, day 8/10 and the daughter days 13/15 respectively.

I was intending to mate my bitch this time to my own dog - fat chance - he knew when she was ready - she knew when she was ready - but come hell or high water was she going to allow him to mate her (talking to experienced breeders - this often happens with dogs living in the same household).

As a maiden bitch, personally I would have premate tested her regardless of owning the dog or not (it sounds like the dog is a maiden as well?

Really - you need to find an experienced stud dog for your first time - my gut feeling would be she has now missed the boat - but hopefully some of the more experienced breeders will be able to give you more advice.

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

thanks for your reply swarthy. I've heard, like you said, that stud dogs living in the same household are often reluctant but he is anything but. I will definitely have her premate tested next time if we dont succeed. I really didnt want to use another stud on her, although I know its easier to use an experienced stud the first time, as I really am only breeding this litter to produce a pup from these 2 lines, for myself. I have a lot of people who want a pup from them and many people have requested to use my dog. However I dont have any interest in producing a litter just for the sake of her being mated to gain experience and I wouldnt want a pup as I only want a pup if she is covered by my own dog. Likewise I havent let him perform as stud as I have no interest in contributing to all the litters out there. I know this makes this more difficult for me but it will be worth the wait, even if it doesnt work this time round.

It's not the dog that is likely to be the problem - it could be, as it was in my case - the bitch - it's a heirarchy thing I am told.

If you are inexperienced, then you need to get in an experienced handler.

Why the insistence on using your own dog? is he the best match in terms of the breed standard and health results for your bitch? It's very unusual for small small breeders to be in that situation - I brought in my own dog, I've got 5 bitches - and just one of them is a suitable match for him - I wouldn't use him on any of the others - because I just don't feel he is suitable for them.

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

Have you done an internal exam? Maybe you should try it - there's no point letting your dog a) wear himself out and b) not learn his job properly if she's not ready yet, and as you say she's not swollen then it might be worth checking.

If there's no room he's not going to be able to tie

yes he is absolutely the best match for her, although I haven't bred a litter myself before I am really very experienced with the breed and as I said researched the lines for years before getting to this stage with these 2. I've several experienced handler friends who are on hand, and of course giving me advice so I'm not relying totally on a forum I know I chose not to premate this time and as I said, definately would in future, I was just hoping to hear from people who have bitches who ovulate late, clinging onto hope I suppose

thanks, no i havent and I admit its not something I feel comfortable to do, I am going to ask the vet to check her though.

It is very common for problems when a dog and bitch who live together.

What breed is it? And welcome to petforums btw.

thanks for the welcome. Ive heard its common for the dog not to be that interested in a bitch he lives in, but not that achieving actual penetration/tie is a such? The dog is definitely very keen... my own feeling is that either we missed the boat or she is a late ovulator and isnt ready yet, she usually swells but hasn't yet this time. (she is 4 next month)

But if you don't feel comfortable doing that, are you going to be okay at the birth - if you have to do an internal to check whether a particular puppy is stuck, do a pelvic sweep to help get things happening, or to get your hands dirty if you have to open sacks or help pups out?

Admittedly, it's not a nice thing necessarily to have to do as a newbie breeder. But as you are using your own dog and the bitch is a maiden, then I feel you have to be able to do it. You need to know whether your boy is wasting his time or not....

It is unusual for a dog to NOT want to mate a bitch, even one that lives there. You say she's been standing like a rock, so it's not like she doesn't want mated. It could be that there's a stricture which could be sorted by your vet, or it could just be that she's not ready yet physically but thinks she is.

I suspect that it's a 'lack of space' issue, if he's been trying hard and she's happy to let him.

Are you getting slip matings, or just no mating at all? Is he extended after he dismounts?