I don't normally come in this bit much, but my question has come because of unethical breeding. (I know someone in this situation too)

Bear with me here peps it may be a bit rambling.

Ok so Joe public decides they want a dog, looks in the free ads, goes and gets said dog/bitch (KC reg), struggles through all the training, without any research, gets another dog/bitch of the opposite sex, again manages the training, as best as possible. They think they are experienced owners, and doing right by their dogs, and the only knowledge they have gained is from their vet, for whatever the ailment at the time.

They may add more dogs at some point too...so for the sake of this they have 1 bitch, 2 dogs, all entire. The bitch gets caught but due to them getting out of the garden lord only knows who the sire is. They again struggle through the litter and yep a year later the same happens again.

Before this forum I was completly ignorant about ethics, and where to find ethical breeders. Many many people don't realise the complexety of woofer ownership.

So my question is who is responsible and how can better education be achieved? We all know if better informed people wouldn't end up supplying PF and BYB's with a demand. But also why don't vets advertise the correct ethics, all about the mismate and other issues surrounding responsible ownership.

I realise the ultimate responsibiltiy falls to the owner. but how can they learn, if information is not more readily available.
Hopefully you get the jist of my question here The person I know remains woefully ignorant and isn't the sort of person to take constructive critisum. (sp)

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Interesting question....I think the kennel club are doing their best with the Good Citizen scheme - the trouble with vets advocating neutering and resposible ownership is that then they stand to gain because they get paid for the neutering, so there is an ethical dilemma there straight away.....

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www.petloversdigest.co.uk
First aid and homecare 4 pets

I firmly believe we should be teaching kids animal husbandry from an early age. Kids are allowed pets, and some parents do make the effort to teach them how to look after animals properly, others don't, and I wonder how many meet an untimely demise

If basic animal husbandry were taught to primary children, and followed up at secondary school with a more informative course about breeding, puppy farming, byb's, rescue, behavioural issues etc, for all pets, you'd hopefully be reaching a lot more people at the right age to actually get them to want to learn more. As it is, the main source of learning for children about these issues, is from their close peers, parents, friends, parents of friends etc and (of course) the internet, and many of those peers are byb's, some because they're ignorant of what they're doing, and others because they are callously ignorant

I agree with you both, but many people think the KC is just a pretty name, and don't bother to look into it more. With all the puppy packs, info from the vets, ect there was nothing on ethic, prevention, or any other info really. The KC booklet was more concerned with pushing the food they like, and training.

I think the RSPCA being the most well known charity should be putting adverts on TV. Even those who don't make it to school very often watch the TV.

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I hate to be a pessimist, but right now I feel as if all the education in the world will never be enough as it seems to fall on deaf ears.

The puppy farm campaigns have been running for decades - everyone knows "see the puppy with its mother" and "don't buy from a pet shop" etc. But they do it anyway.

Why? Because badly bred pups are convenient (local and / or no questions asked) and often cheap. People simply turn a blind eye to the cruelty involved, and have the attitude of "it will never happen to me" regarding the potential health and behaviour problems.

I wish I could see an end to it, but as of now I really can't. One of my dearest friends is about to join the ranks of the BYBs and I feel there is nothing I can do about it. She is smart enough - has a HND in Animal Management. She is an animal lover in many respects - but she is still planning to breed from her dogs (one rare breed, one cross) without any health or temp tests, for no reason whatsoever, with no experience, and without the time / facilities or money to do it properly. I don't even think she knows what the gestation period of a dog is, let alone anything else!

If I can't even change her mind.... what hope do we have convincing everyone else?

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"For all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams it is still a beautiful world"

Since I have been back here though, I haven't seen anything against PF available to the GP though.

Some will still want it now, but there really is very little material available. If people don't understand what/where they are then how do you avoid them. We all know some can look very respectable homes, and are very devious

Another example I was disappointed with. When Bracken went for his jabs, the vet asked the normal what food etc, but when he asked weather he would be nutered, I said not yet, and mabey not at all. His reply was simple. "I don't recommend neutering males unless problems arise". Nothing about the risks of owning an entire male, no questions weather we had an entire female, nothing. It was a prime oppertunity to educate a new owner.

Collete, I know exactly what you mean. The person I know laughed when they said they didn't know what the sire was. "Almost like a lucky dip hey"
If I had said what I really thought, I would not be typing this now, and would probably still be in hospital

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Interesting to read your thoughts - I have a friend who took animals into schools to talk about the care of pets - he was really popular but has closed his charity since as there is no money to pay for this service now. I remember writing to my MP about puppy farming about 25 years ago, so it does seem a bit of a depressing picture right now and nothing seems to be changing for the better.....Trouble is, what can we actually do about it? The internet is a wonderful forum for education and change so I guess it wouln't be hard to reach the youth of today with suggestions and advice on the care and welfare of their pets....

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www.petloversdigest.co.uk
First aid and homecare 4 pets

the ultimate responsibility rests with the owner/breeder, i would guess that the only way of getting things straight is to held them responsible when anything at all goes wrong e.i. any genetic ailment or other breeding disaster like pups with infections etc...should be reported by the puppy buyers and breeders should be made to pay (after all if it where a washing machine the seller would be responsible if it were to break...)... this would eat into the profits of breeding and leave on the "market" those who breed for passion.... from there there will be improvement also in the breeding practices...
but that is my opinion, so i don;t know
best
D

I agree totally. Children should be taught about how to care for animals at school; it would be a much more useful part of the curriculum than some of the rubbish they insist on teaching. A few trips out to rescue centres wouldn't do them any harm, either.

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http://www.gentle-newfoundland-dogs.com
http://www.royston-pet-care.co.uk



Will always miss you, my little Joshie Woshie xx

If you want real love, buy a dog

If you wouldn't use it on a child, don't use it on a dog

http://pettaxisg8.yolasite.com/
http://www.help-for-learner-drivers.yolasite.com/

Anyone can educate themselves about anything nowadays, especially with the internet, so if they really wanted to learn, then they would. Unfortunately, they don't; they already think they know it all. Example was when I got Ferdie and how many people insisted that a dog that size would need loads of exercise. Good thing that I had researched the breed carefully before getting him or his joints would be ruined.

I still have people asking me how many times a day and how many hours I have to run him for. When I tell them that too much exercise is very bad for a giant breed, they obviously do not believe me, so heaven help any large dog they decide to get.

__________________
http://www.gentle-newfoundland-dogs.com
http://www.royston-pet-care.co.uk



Will always miss you, my little Joshie Woshie xx

If you want real love, buy a dog

If you wouldn't use it on a child, don't use it on a dog

http://pettaxisg8.yolasite.com/
http://www.help-for-learner-drivers.yolasite.com/