Your perception of the hipscore is right and was the point I was (possibly rather harshly after a long day ) trying to make.

In 67K dogs scored in my own breed - there is a SINGLE dog in the UK from two 0/0 parents scoring 0/0 himself - the dog in question also now comes from four generations of at least one parent scoring 0/0 on their hipscore.

This is quite a remarkable achievement and should not in any way be undervalued - it has also caused great interest from many people 'in the know' - the why's and wherefores of how this has happened have yet to be uncovered - and one dog in so many is not representative (YET) of the need to change things - I have no doubt if this trend continues through the generations, then it is going to create far more scientific interest and if that benefits the long term good of the breed and improved hips all round - fantastic.

There is all sorts of research going on around hipscores to ascertain why some puppies become predisposed to HD and how that predisposition can be reduced / removed - one theory being about hormones produced by the mother and delivered in her milk - but again, nothing concrete yet.

If this comes to fruition, and there is a long term way to pretty much erradicate HD I am sure there will be a lot of people (particularly those of us who regularly have pups and have to go through the continuous first 12/18 months of worry and (in my case) the subsequent heartache of discovering I can't breed from a very good specimen of the breed who will welcome it - but I suspect that is still a good few years off.


It's pretty near the mark yes

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

Neither. Not until your bitch has had her DNA test done. Dog one is a carrier, you wouldnt want to put that to your bitch if she was affected or a carrier herself. Carriers/affected dogs should only go to clear. As he is a carrier even if your bitch is clear all puppies would need to be tested.

I most certainly wouldnt consider using dog 2 until it had also had its DNA test done, why breed from a dog of an unknown status. Even if you put it to your bitch who was clear you could still produce carrying pups, who would need to be tested at 4weeks. But for me its far better to know the status of each dog used.

Also forget what the dog has done in the showing ring..and think about how each dog improves on your bitch and vis versa not just structure wise, but health and tempermant to..Then pick which is best.
Have you made up pedigrees for each to your girl?

In 67K dogs scored in my own breed - there is a SINGLE dog in the UK from two 0/0 parents scoring 0/0 himself - the dog in question also now comes from four generations of at least one parent scoring 0/0 on their hipscore.


What dog is that may I ask? just curious

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RIP all my babies.
Monty LabxGSD 1972-1982
Jody Black Lab1982-1999
KizzyLabx Goldie 1983-1994
Larry Yellow Lab 1985-1993
Charlie Black Lab 1986 -1997
Ben Yellow Lab 1985-1999
Pud Choc Lab 1989-2003
Bridgit Black Lab 1991-2004
Floss Yellow Lab1992-2006
Millie Yellow Lab1994-2010
My boy Ted, my first my last my everything.Golden Retriever 1/8/98-28/6/2011

I am sure (I will check ) his owner won't mind me saying

River Meadow Oak by Riversway Apollo (hips 0:0) x Fern of Wephurst (hips 0:0)

Fern of Wephursts sire was Southridge Ajax of Leospring (0/0 hips)

His sire was Augustus Tuplady of Leospring FTW (0/0 hips)

This was the first I knew of from my own records and was subsequently confirmed.

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

I think you have to look at the whole dog and decide what you want to breed. What is your goal for these pups? Are you keeping one as a potential breeding animal or are they going as pets? If pets then health and temperament is very important, more important perhaps than purely cosmetic issues so you need to go with the one that is most likely to give you healthy, happy long lived pups. As has been mentioned the CEA needs sorted out re DNA.
If you hope to keep a potential breeding girl then although health is also important she also need to cut it in the breed type department, otherwise you join the ranks of those breeding poor quality animals.
You need to look at ALL your dog's faults and by those I do not necessarily mean health issues I mean cosmetically, conformation wise and temperament wise. Weigh up where she needs improved.
What are the faults of her parents as she may well pass those on to her pups, even if she herself doesn't have them. What is behind the mate you choose? What faults are there in his pedigree.
You need to think what is your long term goal? If you have a style of dog in mind, then make sure this mating takes account of that. Simplistic view -> say if you want in the long term to breed a larger boned dog, then your choice now may influence that. If you are persuaded to go with a small boned dog then you may spend x no. of years trying to correct that.
It is all very well being mentored and being told what to use but sometimes mentors can have their own agenda. All very well to see their dogs doing well for other breeders but few want the dog to produce better than their own dogs. Find out as much as you can for yourself, I am not saying go against the grain for the sake of it but seriously consider the mating and work it out rather than just going with the flow.

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Lauren

Don't Shop Adopt! - Stop Puppy Farming

Battery Farmed Dogs Campaign (Puppy Farming)

I plan to keep a dog back from this litter to continue the line. Hopefully (if I am lucky) I will be keeping back either blue merle or tri bitch to show and breed. (if any are showable as I know you can breed and breed and are lucky if you get 1 dog in a litter that is show quaility).

The other puppies will be sold to pet only/show homes (if they are showable)/agility but will have endorsements on them.

Dog 2 has perfect temperment and I was very lucky to spend some time with both dog 1 and dog 2 last month both where very impressive but when we went to the show the dog that stud out the most was dog 2. I actually stopped and said to my OH "wow hes amazing, I hope its a he, go find out who he is" then I realised looking at his owner who he was and was like "ahhhh look its the man we want to use"



Both dogs are very calm, alert and friendly. It really is a skin of teeth thing.

dog 2 - DNA test your bitch - if she's a carrier you wo'nt be able to mate her to dog 1 anyway as he is a carrier also so pups are likely to be affected

...plus dog 2 is better construction wise in my opinion - I don't know your bitch of course but from the info given ... I'd choose dog 2

..P.S if your bitch does come back as a CEA carrier then your best bet is to mate her to a DNA tested clear dog from another line

I would be concerned about a breeder that was breeding and breeding, and was just 'lucky' to get one odd pup that was good enough to show. Not every pup in a litter is going to be show quality we all know that, but matings should be thought out and researched deeply. Any breeder breeding and breeding and not getting good examples, are doing some wrong and shouldnt be breeding imo..