YouTube - Macy's-NewBorn-English-Bulldog-Puppies.avi

notice how heavily the dam is panting, from the heat-lamp above her -
even one of the week-old pups pants open-mouthed + belly-up.

notice how little nostril-opening the pups have to breathe -
and how deeply folded their faces are; wrinkle-dermatitis is a real possibility, if the whelping-box
is allowed to get even slightly dirty [from mum's feet, spilled food/bacteria growth, saliva on
butts and bellies, traces of urine or feces, etc].

notice how deeply-folded their mother's face is, how deep the haw drops under her eye,
how slit-like her stenotic nares; do U think the stud, even if he HAD open-nares/sinuses,
open ear-canals and a foreface that wasn't retrograde, could possibly compensate for hers?
[FWIW i don't - he can do no more than moderate her extreme physiognomy.]

notice how B-I-G the pup's skulls are - normally shoulders are the biggest part of a pup, during birth;
these pups at approx 7-days-old have skulls wider and deeper [from backskull to bottom-jaw]
than their shoulders are in width, or their torso is, in depth from withers to sternum.
that's why C-sections are needed; they cannot fit thru the pelvic-girdle to whelp naturally.

this is also an unusually large litter - Eight is huge; the average is 3 or 4,
and often one will die; English-Bullies are notorious for uterine inertia and exhaustion
in the middle of delivery - it's not her fault; with poor oxygen-intake, they have exercise intolerance
and simply cannot keep going, their muscles need O2 to work.
so if this dam had been allowed to try natural-whelping, 3 or 4 of these pups would have been
at risk, and mum might not have made it; straining to exhaustion can leave a pup stranded in the birth canal,
with the umbilical cord pinched by the pelvis and circulation slowed or stopped; it's a cork in the neck
of the bottle, and the pup may die, which again quickly affects mum - thru the placenta,
the dead pup is directly connected to her bloodstream, liver and kidneys.

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Terry what's your point here ? -

i would think that was self-apparent, bijou?
this is the first in a series to compare and contrast pups of various breeds as neonates.
the title of the thread is IMO very-clear about the subject matter?
cheers,
- t

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

I can't view the link. I'm sure its very different from the birth and development of ES pups. Eve has had 21 with no problems whatsoever.

__________________
Check out my English Shepherds
http://www.edenvillage.co.uk

Breed for a useful dog and you often get a beautiful, useful dog... breed only for a beautiful dog and you are on your own in the useful department.

in the link it says they are newborns ...

I managed to see it through youtube. Could the panting not be that she just has the room too hot? What I was amazed about was that the mother didn't clean the pups, the breeder was doing all that, and even when she put the pup under the mother's nose, she didn't even attempt to lick it!

__________________
Check out my English Shepherds
http://www.edenvillage.co.uk

Breed for a useful dog and you often get a beautiful, useful dog... breed only for a beautiful dog and you are on your own in the useful department.

under the video: DOB = Jan. 25th; video-date = Feb. 1st.
ergo, the pups are 7-days old.

actually, LMD, i did point out that the dog + pups are overly-warm due to the heat-lamp,
but their compromised airways are a contributing factor - dogs with free-breathing could
compensate by breathing 'faster', these dogs breathe thru straws in their nostrils and cannot
move enuf-air in and out.
i doubt the pups "needed" cleaning - did U also notice that she used the same 6- to 8-inch-square-rag
for all 8 pups? and it never appeared to get wet or dirty? she is apparently just handling
the pups, as opposed to literally stimulating bladder or bowels - since if she did, at least one pup
of the 4 or 5 she "cleans" would actually void something, but they don't.
at that point, the dam was really warm - and had zero interest in licking her puppy.
the pups are well-fed - they are quiet and un-fussy, either feeding or sleeping; they are clean,
the bedding is clean, and the sleeping pups have obvious full-stomachs. the dam is doing fine by them -
OR the breeder is fussing with them so much, and cleans them so often, the dam has no cleaning to do...
or she's sick of being presented with puppy-bums by her proud, interfering owner... who knows?

a whining or fussing puppy gets a dam's attention and often licking as comfort, or she'll fetch a pup
who's too-far afield and chilling, back to the puppy-pile to warm-up.
the pup who was presented to her is utterly silent, not chilly or needy, and is proffered face- on -
i'd say about 50% of dams might off-handedly lick their pup reflexively under those circs,
but many would not... and it wouldn't seem to me a sign of poor maternal behavior if they didn't lick.
the dam being overheated is an additional stressor, and makes her much less-likely to lick her pup.

JMO + IME,
- terry