It was just an example to illustrate how line breeding works and not to be taken too literally.
The intensity of the yellow colour would be polygenetic I would have thought in Labs, is that current thinking?
It is relatively easy to add a new colour to any breed, by the use of outcrosses, it is just about adding another colour gene to the breed's gene pool. However convention, registries, breed clubs and breed standards will not allow, as the breed needs to look like the breed it is supposed to be. For example black and white or blue Merle Labs would not fit into what we like our Labs to look like.

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Lauren

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They'd also stand out if they were used for what they were bred for, not much good in the shooting field

TBH - I don't know what the current thinking is - but yes, you could be right - as breeders may put two similar colour dogs together recognising they will get a range of shades - I suspect there is a lot more thinking about chocolate coat colours than yellows - but I could be wrong.

I don't have the yellow gene in my lines, and can't breed from my yellow girl - but while I like the darker coat - it certainly isn't top of my list of priorities when looking at yellows - temperament and health being top and pigmentation coming reasonably close after

My forthcoming yellow addition actually has quite a light coat (but he's still lovely )

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

You are mistaken a bit here, but I understand where you are coming from. In the case of chocolates as we already know there are different alleles on the B loci, you can breed for shades. It would be hit/miss for a bit, yes, but you could stack the odds just as Lauren suggested. Some might be inclined to use linebreeding to try to do just that. Pale to Pale would give you a better chance at more pales. Continue with that, and with culling out the darker shades, and you'd eventually set the trait (not that anyone should want to - just sayin' it could be done).

Sorry Holly, but had a giggle at your expense. Hope you don't mind but yours is such a common thought that I am going to take the opportunity for a bit of an explanation.

A Black paired with a Golden Labrador cannot give you Chocolate - unless they are each carrying a 'b' at the Brown locus. In this case the interaction of three different loci must be considered and that is where it is complicated.

I happen to love color genetics, so I will point you to a sight that would help with an explanation if you care to click the link. - Dog Coat Colour Genetics

To put it simply there are MANY loci that color is determined on according to how they interact. The A (agouti), B (brown), E (extension), K (black - full color), and S (white spotting) loci being the four that determine the most seen color and patterns on dogs - and from there other loci modify even those to change them up a bit (shades etc).

Solid Black and Chocolate dogs have the same dominant alleles at their main K and E locus but are different at the B (brown) locus. Brown is dependent on having a pair of recessive alleles there. If a dominant B allele is there, the Lab will be black. A Black Labrador and a Brown can be as little as one 'color' allele different.

B/b, E/E, K/K would be black, while b/b, E/E, K/K would be brown.

In Golden Labradors it doesn't matter (re coat) what is at the B and K loci, because their color is determined at the extension locus - with a pair of recessive e/e alleles. When paired these two little create a coat which is any shade from extra light cream (white Bichons and Maltese are this color) to Ruby Red in Cavaliers and Irish Setters.

While a Black and Chocolate Labrador are E/E-(or e), K/K at the extension and black loci, Golden Labradors are e/e and K/K. Again a Golden can be only one allele different, but this time it is at the E locus.

The C (Chinchilla) locus is the main contributor to shading differences in the yellows. There are other intensifier loci that are yet to be identified which also affect - so yes it is polygenetic.

All the shades can be bred for with careful observation over generations, but you are absolutely correct that temperament, health and structure should be the highest priorities. Just mentioning that it can be done and some might be inclined to linebreed to do so.

CC

Oh no I completely agree with you that it WILL most certainly stack the odds in your favour, but you can't guarantee it, just as Swarthy posted earlier, you can get a pale choc that darkens considerably as they age, it's just that some don't. As you know, I've got a bitch that hasn't really got any darker since birth, and she's the palest chocolate Lab I've seen, doesn't make her any better because of her shade, but because she's unusual, she always draws comments from people about how they would love one the same colour. And yes, re the fox reds too, I know a lady who breeds fox reds, and she's quite successful at producing fox red litters, I know she produced a litter from a mating to a yellow dog, that produced some nice dark yellows and fox reds as well. But what I was trying to say is that it doesn't work the same way as mixing tins of paint together, putting a dark chocolate dog with a pale chocolate dog won't necessarily give you a shade in the middle, but you may get all varying shades, if that makes sense?? Slightly OT from the line breeding bit, but never mind, interesting nonetheless.....

Thanks, that does explain it better. I do forget that some think color mixing in dogs can be thought of like paint shades!

CC

just as a COMPLETE aside - there is no such thing as a golden labrador - They are Yellow, Black or liver/chocolate.

Holly - in answer to your question, chocolate labs have actually been around for a very long time (although were typically referred to as Liver as still can be registered as such) - the Blacks in the UK back in the late 1880's already carried that chocolate gene - but I don't think it was particulary seen as 'desirable' - but being a recessive gene - it just kept cropping up

They probably would have remained relatively few if it hadn't been for the pet owner interest - this was taken up by the less scrupulous breeders and has been responsible for most of the terrible and totally unfair reputation they have today

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

Thanks Swarthy. Laughed that I typed 'Golden Labrador' when I read this. So many breeds . . . so many color terms all meaning the same thing . . . and then I see in genetic letters and not color words.

CC