My Fiancee and I have a friend who breeds wonderful show Springers. Our goal is to have one of her pups. Recently, my Fiancee was looking at some of her pedigrees and noticed that she practices line breeding. We agreed that we do not want a line bred pup. Another friend who shows dogs is now trying to convince us that if it is done correctly, there is nothing wrong with this practice. This breeder does do health tests and is quite successful in the show ring.

What is your opinion on this matter? I am obviously against line breeding.

__________________

R.I.P Barney, I had 4 wonderful years with you, Thank you-29/04/06-25/11/09
The dog who saved my life
Proud owner of Maya, the Rescued Alaskan Malamute

http://www.dog-breeds-plus.com
Mine and My husband's Dog breed website

I'm against it. Breeders will tell you that the normal genetic laws that apply to all organisms that reproduce like that do not apply to dogs . You can inbreed all you want and it will not cause any problems whatsoever. Besides how else can they fix that awesome tail set/ear placement or whatever will win them awards in the show ring.

I get that you have to line breed within breeds that have tiny numbers but breeders purposely choosing to breed grandfather to grandaughter or first cousins and expecting it not to cause problems

__________________
"A dog is not "almost human," and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such."
John Holmes

Owned by Buster cairn terrier mix and Leo netherland dwarf mix bunny

100% against it. There is no way i would 'support' this by buying a puppy from such a breeder.

Its an old fashioned, naive, wrong 'practice' and to buy a pup its encouraging it.

None/very few buyers will eventually cause these people not to breed related (in anyway) dogs.

__________________
LOADING CRAZINESS..
████████████]
99% complete..

(-: plɹoʍ ʎʌɹnʇ ʎsdoʇ ʎɯ uı uo ƃuıoƃ ɥɔnɯ os 'uoos ǝɯıʇʎuɐ ʞɔɐq ǝq ll,ı ɟı ʍouʞ ʇ,uop 'ʞɐǝɹq pǝpuǝʇxǝ uɐ ƃuıʞɐʇ ɯɐ ı

If you think that it is possible to regularly outcross dogs then you are living in some sort of parallel universe - very occasionally - you might get an outcross over 5 generations - over 10 you get a VERY different story - and that's in my own breed - probably with one of the larger, if not the largest gene pools - even when using dogs from across the globe.

You line breed to retain characteristics and features - some breeders outcross and then linebreed / outcross / linebreed etc (outcross in as much as it possibly can be done).

When you outcross, you will never know the lines to the extent of your own breeding lines - hence you could bring in unknown genetics, faults, poor temperaments.

You cannot however breed in a condition within your lines which doesn't exist - the reasons human relatives are prevented from marrying / having children is because there are so many recessive conditions and little seen conditions in humans which can increase the likelihood of severe problems (including disabilities and death) - many conditions in dogs are known about and in ethical breeders tested for.

=======================

Breeding Co-efficients are monitored over 10 generations - and I know what I would be looking for in a pedigree - there is nothing wrong with linebreeding providing it is done responsibly and not too tightly

Outcrossing for the sake of it because of what it says on paper and hoping for the best is NOT the way to breed - and in many breeds that's exactly what you would have to do - assuming you could find something to outcross to in the first place.

so it's OK to buy from puppy farmers but not people who line breed - so lets all just buy from puppy farmers - it is IMPOSSIBLE not to line breed

ETA - unless of course you all want to breed mongrels which have been proven to have at least as many, if not more health problems on even first generation crosses than their pedigree counterparts

I don't know why I am wasting my breath though - go and buy a database of several breeds - sit down and study the pedigrees and then come back with a view

__________________
What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

So random mutation crops up in your lines. Homozygous form makes the puppies sick but the carriers have no symptoms. It's a new mutation so there is no test for it and at the beginning most are going to be carriers anyway. You breed close relatives from the affected line and the faulty gene stays within the line. This has a much higher chance of happening with inbreeding sorry "linebreeding". There created a problem that didn't exist before

__________________
"A dog is not "almost human," and I know of no greater insult to the canine race than to describe it as such."
John Holmes

Owned by Buster cairn terrier mix and Leo netherland dwarf mix bunny

Great post - was shocked to see people didnt agree with line breeding, and a little confused also.
Could you imagine constant outcrossing .. Of course with inbreeding, you bring out the good and the bad hence you need to know your breed and lines/dogs inside out.

Two different things, as some one hoping to breed later on in life I would have thought you knew that! Line breeding isnt as close as inbreeding!

Interesting thread, I don't know much about line breeding, have read a bit and discussed with various breeders and I can't c a problem as long as it's done correctly and u now your lines, Swarthy am I right in thinking in say breeding granddaughter to grandfather they would need 2 b the same pheonotype (sp) ?

__________________
"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way."
Martin Luther King Jr.

Inbreeding and line-breeding are the same thing, it's just that the term line-breeding is generally used to describe a less close relationship.

As Swarthy so rightly says, and as I was discussing earlier today with a friend, very few people bother to look back further than 5 generations and they think they are producing "outcrossed" puppies but in fact they may well be very closely bred.

So your friend breeds "wonderful" dogs and she health tests and you are obviously impressed by her dogs and you know her dogs. Are they healthy? If so, I can't see why you wouldn't want a puppy from her. Just how close is she breeding (do you know the inbreeding co-efficient over 5 and 10 generations?)