I think with increased knowledge and understanding, we do find things previously acceptable to be unacceptable.
There are so many practices in history that were thought perfectly acceptable that are now thought of as being totally barmy, idiotic, stupid, disgusting, insensitive, downright cruel, dangerous or harmful.

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Lauren

Don't Shop Adopt! - Stop Puppy Farming

Battery Farmed Dogs Campaign (Puppy Farming)

Whoah there, hold your horses, are those all descriptions of line breeding, or other stuff, such as fighting animals/birds etc?

I mean things like slavery, smoking, the treatment of illnesses with quack cures and dangerous treatments, dog fighting, bear baiting, duelling, public executions, torture, the burning of witches, the earth is flat were all taken as read and acceptable at one point.
Once we have real knowledge and understanding, we tend to look at things differently and evolve.

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Lauren

Don't Shop Adopt! - Stop Puppy Farming

Battery Farmed Dogs Campaign (Puppy Farming)

it'a a shame though, that notwithstanding the extensive knowledge on the subject....interests are so strong and well institutionalised that nothing (or very little) is done to avoid this practice

sorry but you don't have 'real knowledge and understanding' ...you've just read about it !! - try breeding pedigree dogs yourself and then tell us how to do it with REAL knowledge and understanding !

I tried to rep you for that - but apparently I have to 'put it about a bit' first

It's very easy to judge others - you only have to go to a football match to see that - 20,000 managers and referees standing on the terraces

I noticed a comment about some of the pedigrees posted and meant to ask if the person who thought they were so atrocious -

a) knew the breed inside out
b) Knew how large the gene pool was and what genetic conditions affected it, which could be tested for and which couldn't
c) knew the breeding co-efficients of the mating

One of the breeds is actually an unrecognised breed (crossed from two other breeds and very tightly regulated by it's own breed club) - so it is quite possible that despite a very tight line breed - that pedigree MIGHT have the lowest COI and be the most outcrossed - I don't know the gene pool for this breed - and without knowing that - it's impossible to know how wide that gene pool is to avoid such a mating.

I wish I had the time to research all these breeds because I find this fascinating - sadly, I am going to have to stick with my own, and the database of English Shepherds I've started creating which hopefully might help a member here and her breeding lines in the future.

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

as i said, i give up!
there's no point in going through the science if breeders systematically ignore it!
well done for your effort!
what else can i say?

cheers
D

MY EFFORTS? I am fortunate enough to be in a breed where I can (to a certain extent) outcross (over 5 generations) and have all outcrossed or very loosely linebred dogs bar one -

My point is - I don't know enough about those breeds to be able to make any comments about the pedigrees - and I am assuming as you can't substantiate your comments with facts about the breeds and their gene pools, neither can you.

I am guessing you are one of these people who doesn't believe we should have breeds?

I did a little exercise last night looking at the interbreds and flatcoats introduced into my own breed - and they sit, albeit a long way back, behind many of today's dogs -so even if you outcrossed to other retrievers - you wouldn't be truly outcrossing - and if you go back far enough, you will quite possibly find that this is the case with other similar typed breeds such as Shepherds, retrievers and spaniels to name just a few.

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What you need to know before buying a Labrador puppy

repped her this morning

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