Confused about this Forum ?????????????

[snoopydo]

Originally Posted by shetlandlover

I believe it is purely based on breed more than being a 1st time breeder. Like there are too many staffies in rescues so the advice would be, please dont bring more into the world at this point.

I am new to breeding, infact I have not even bred my first litter yet. However If you do research, can afford and provide for pups and have homes lined up and health test the members of this forum are more than happy for you.

argghh This my point what give people the right NOT to be happy for you?

[Tanya1989]

Originally Posted by snoopydo

argghh This my point what give people the right NOT to be happy for you?

ummmm..... free will?

You can't expect people to be happy that there is another poorly bred litter, destined to end up in rescue. I know I don't jump for joy when I see threads like "accidental mating" or "My schnoodlyshitzadoodle is pregnant" . I'm definitely not happy about the situation, but I'll put my principles aside to help the "breeder" keep their bitch alive if they come on here with a heavily pregnant bitch.

Either way, I'm not happy. I'm doing what I feel is my duty as I have the knowledge to help out a bitch and breeder in distress.

[hawksport]

Originally Posted by snoopydo

argghh This my point what give people the right NOT to be happy for you?

I have a right to be happy or unhappy about whatever I like. What gives you the right to tell people what they should be happy about?

Originally Posted by snoopydo

argghh This my point what give people the right NOT to be happy for you?

It actually makes me quite sad! potentially every pup brought into this world is a death warrent for one in rescue!

[Bijou]

It actually makes me quite sad! potentially every pup brought into this world is a death warrent for one in rescue!

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Well this is only true if all puppy buyers only want Staffy croses or Lurchers !!
the folk on my waiting list ONLY want a Groenendael and are prepared to wait for what they want .



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Originally Posted by Bijou

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Well this is only true if all puppy buyers only want Staffy croses or Lurchers !!
the folk on my waiting list ONLY want a Groenendael and are prepared to wait for what they want .



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Beautiful dogs! I only ever saw one in the flesh and thought it were a black GS.
I think problems arise when more unusual dogs get into the hands of byb who then proceed to cross them with any breed that barks and then demand higher price tags for them! lets hope that never happens!

[Colette]

Giving people bad advice - including unethical, incorrect, or inappropriate advice - is WORSE IMO than not giving advice at all.

We are not talking about picking a new telly - we are talking about the lives of sentient creatures; the very dogs we all claim to care about. Irresponsible breeding practices cause immense amounts of suffernig - to the ault breeding dogs, to the pups, to the general population of dogs at large including dogs in rescues and future generations. Virtually ALL of this suffering could be prevented by people listening to good advice in the first place.

Now I have no problem whatsoever with responsible caring breeders. Most of the good ones have a wealth of dog experience and have been mentored by an excellent established breeder. Solo's breeder was "in" bichons for over 10 years before she bred her first litter, having been involved in owning, showing, judging and been mentored first. As a result, her dogs are extensively health tested, champions in the show ring worldwide, well reared, well socialised, and only sold to people she approves having met them in person.

The person who comes on demanding to know how to get their un-tested mongrel knocked up on her first season should NOT be told how to do it. They should absolutely be told that the bitch is too young, that she needs to be health tested, that the breeder needs to get advice in person from a decent breeder, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like rudeness and people being "jumped on" but from what I have seen people whine the moment anyone disagrees with them or tells them something they don't want to hear.

The moment someone suggests that actually it might not be appropriate / ethical / safe / etc to breed from this particular dog, at this particular time, in this particular way they now get grief for criticising.

Would you perhaps prefer we all said "Yeah - why doesn't everyone go out and buy puppy farm dogs, breed from them, on their first season, rear them in cages in a tiny shed... Lets scrap all health testing. Lets breed for crippled dogs that can't run or breathe. Lets churn out as many pups as we can and b****cks to the ones dying in rescue. Lets produce pups that will be unable to walk by two years, or will go blind at age three, or will require surgery in order to stay alive. Lets breed from adults with known behaviour problems so we can create a whole generation of nervous aggressive dogs. Lets rear them in such a way as to ensure they will never be properly socialised or housetrained. Lets sell them to all those thugs, chavs, junkies and dog fighters who want to kick them around to impress their mates. Congrats on hurting yet more dogs! Well done, have a twinkie!"

Personally, I think I'll stick to "please don't breed...."

[swarthy]

Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble

I think problems arise when more unusual dogs get into the hands of byb who then proceed to cross them with any breed that barks and then demand higher price tags for them! lets hope that never happens!

No - problems arise when BYB and PF produce puppies, end of - doesn't matter what breed they are, what cross they might be, whether they are KC registered or not. I am aware that not every dog in rescue is produced this way, but often, those from responsible breeders end up there because the new owner didn't have the courage of their convictions to pick up the phone and tell the breeder they need to rehome then of course we have the sometimes unavoidable situations such as owner bereavement.

One of our local rescues is filled to overflowing with ex-breeding bitches and PF puppes.

As for breeds such as staffies, they've been crucified by ignorant owners and onlookers, not understanding what dog they actually own, or believing that a single vicious act means the problems are inherent in a breed, spurred on massively by the media

When you start digging deeper on some of these acts, you realise often (I do appreciate not always) the dog could have been any dog, put in a bad situation by an irresponsible owner.

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I often point puppy enquiries to rescue if I don't feel they are suitable for an 8 week old puppy, but as the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water..........." and in a breed such as my own where there is always another litter around the corner, there is only so much you can do.

We spent two years trawling the rescues when we wanted our first family dog, but my daughters (then) nervousness around dogs meant eventually we had no other option but to get a pup.

Fast forward 18 months, and we again trawled the rescues with no longer nervous daughter, but this time, the rescues wouldn't home with us because we had an entire bitch, even though we would have been homing a neutered bitch (because they quite explicitly didn't want any accidents between the dogs, in which case I think maybe a biology lesson or two is in order).

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There will nearly always be room (in most breeds) for new responsible blood in breeding - because otherwise we stand to lose a massive amount of knowledge and experience which will never be replaced.

What there definitely isn't room for is more unhealth-tested, ill thought out litters which often occur on a whim (or less) by an uneducated owner who isn't aware of what can be done to prevent it.

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Legislation and the powers that be have failed to stop BYB and Puppy Farmers, so it is down to puppy buyers to stop them, they can only do this by not buying from them, unfortunately we are dealing with human nature in an area where the heart will continue to rule the head

[haeveymolly]

Originally Posted by Colette

Giving people bad advice - including unethical, incorrect, or inappropriate advice - is WORSE IMO than not giving advice at all.

We are not talking about picking a new telly - we are talking about the lives of sentient creatures; the very dogs we all claim to care about. Irresponsible breeding practices cause immense amounts of suffernig - to the ault breeding dogs, to the pups, to the general population of dogs at large including dogs in rescues and future generations. Virtually ALL of this suffering could be prevented by people listening to good advice in the first place.

Now I have no problem whatsoever with responsible caring breeders. Most of the good ones have a wealth of dog experience and have been mentored by an excellent established breeder. Solo's breeder was "in" bichons for over 10 years before she bred her first litter, having been involved in owning, showing, judging and been mentored first. As a result, her dogs are extensively health tested, champions in the show ring worldwide, well reared, well socialised, and only sold to people she approves having met them in person.

The person who comes on demanding to know how to get their un-tested mongrel knocked up on her first season should NOT be told how to do it. They should absolutely be told that the bitch is too young, that she needs to be health tested, that the breeder needs to get advice in person from a decent breeder, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like rudeness and people being "jumped on" but from what I have seen people whine the moment anyone disagrees with them or tells them something they don't want to hear.

The moment someone suggests that actually it might not be appropriate / ethical / safe / etc to breed from this particular dog, at this particular time, in this particular way they now get grief for criticising.

Would you perhaps prefer we all said "Yeah - why doesn't everyone go out and buy puppy farm dogs, breed from them, on their first season, rear them in cages in a tiny shed... Lets scrap all health testing. Lets breed for crippled dogs that can't run or breathe. Lets churn out as many pups as we can and b****cks to the ones dying in rescue. Lets produce pups that will be unable to walk by two years, or will go blind at age three, or will require surgery in order to stay alive. Lets breed from adults with known behaviour problems so we can create a whole generation of nervous aggressive dogs. Lets rear them in such a way as to ensure they will never be properly socialised or housetrained. Lets sell them to all those thugs, chavs, junkies and dog fighters who want to kick them around to impress their mates. Congrats on hurting yet more dogs! Well done, have a twinkie!"

Personally, I think I'll stick to "please don't breed...."

Ive felt sorry for many on here coming on for advice and recieving a good slating, ive also seen some that i could just shake, but reading your thread who can argue with that, fail to find anyone that could disagree with that.