I posted this thread in the dog section by accident, sorry.

Hi everyone,

To be honest this is going to be a long essay , so I hope you are prepared to read it all to maybe give some advice if you can.

I have been putting off typing up this thread for ages, because I know it’s going to be a long one, and it is going to be hard for me to word it well enough so you can all get the situation 100% in your heads so that then you could maybe offer advice.

I am also not sure if anyone will be able to help! I may have to call in a cat behaviourist lol rolleyes:

Ok a bit of history for the people that don’t know...

I have 2 cats, Cleo and Bailey. They are Ragdolls and are now 2 years old (today). They come from the same litter. I got them when they were 12 weeks old.

Ok, so… they have always had play fighting games like all cats do. But since Cleo was spayed (they were both spayed and neutered at the same time, when they were about 6 months old), it’s changed and been hell.

Basically Bailey picks on his sister, he beats the living day lights out of her if I am honest.

This has been going on since they were about 6 months old and has been getting worse and worse. Since it started I have just been hoping it was a stage he was going through and that he would grow out of it, or that he was just trying to start a game with her. But it seems as though it isn’t going to stop and it isn’t a game at all

It’s going to be hard to describe the situation AHHH! I hope you will be able to make sense of it.

I will give you some examples of what Bailey does on a daily basis…

Bailey seems to want to CONSTANTLY intimidate his sister. She will start playing with a toy in the middle of the living room (by herself, she can amuse herself… where as Bailey can’t.) He will hide behind one of the chairs then run out really loudly to scare her and intimidate her, she freezes in fear and he proceeds to takes her toy away from her then plays with it himself for about 30 seconds. She is too frightened and intimidated to go and get it back.
She can just be sitting in the living room doing absolutely nothing and he will run out at her loudly to scare her, she runs off and he just walks off because he has achieved what he wanted to.
He also beats her up, he will go up to her, bites her then jumps on her and beats her up (this is NOT playing, he is rough and nasty). She growls and hisses and it just sounds absolutely terrible. It sounds like the 2 local cats having an extremely rough fight in your back garden late at night. When you catch him doing it, it looks like 2 tasmanian devils fighting (cartoon style). He bites clumps of fur out of her. She finally escapes from him and runs away but he wont give up until he has really hurt her or we manage break them up, he chases her and catches her and really hurts her. Sometimes I cannot stop it when they are doing it because it’s so fierce, and it’s just complete mayhem, like I said… it’s like 2 Tasmanian devils in a fight. But the thing is Cleo is not fighting back, she is just screaming, hissing and trying to get a way. He is nearly half a stone heavier than Cleo, he is 18lbs and she is 12. So he gets the best of her every time and can sit on top of her and hold her down to hurt her and there isn’t a thing she can do. She’s lucky to get away sometimes.

He does this EVERYDAY about 5+ times. We have tried everything, we have tried saying NO, we have tried breaking it up, we have tried locking him away in another room when he does it, we have also tried locking her in another room, we have tried squirting water at him, we have tried a shaker… we have tried all sorts and absolutely nothing has worked. He just will NOT stop beating her up.

He has learnt that what he does to his sister we don’t like, so he now targets her when we are distracted. For example, if my mum is hoovering, washing up, on the phone, in the shower or outside in the garden doing something… he will pick on her and the war begins. All you can hear is Cleo screaming and Cleos poor little body being slammed onto the floor by Bailey. It’s so loud and vicious that I can hear it from the other side of the house, even with doors closed. You can guarantee that whenever mum or I are distracted he will get her, every single time.

Cleo doesn’t even have to be doing anything for Bailey to pick on her. She can be simply sitting on the floor and he will go up to her bite her and start beating the sh*t out of her. It’s actually becoming a daily dread now and we are at a loss on what we can do to solve it. I know this is going to sound really terrible, but we have actually thought maybe it would be best to give one up… because he is making his sisters life total hell. All this beating her up has changed Cleo, she is now constantly on guard, because she knows he is constantly hunting her down. She has become extremely jumpy, nervous, touchy… not because of us and not towards us, just because/towards Bailey.

For example… if I go up to Cleo from behind to give her a hug or to stroke her, she will jump out of her skin because she thinks it’s Bailey (before all this started, she never used to be jumpy… she was the most confident out of the 2). When she realises it’s one of us touching her she calms down and comes for cuddles. Cleo can NEVER relax anymore, she is ALWAYS on guard and looking around, any sudden sound and she jumps waiting for Bailey to appear. Because Bailey is heavy, when he runs around the house it makes a lot of noise. We live in a bungalow so have floorboards and when he runs around you can hear it. So when there are noises like that she jumps and gets scared, her eyes pop out of her head and we have to reassure her that it isn’t Bailey coming, it’s something else.

Cleo has now started to hide behind things, like the sofa, up in my brothers cupboard and up on top of the work surface in the kitchen (this is not allowed, but we let her because she needs a break from Bailey). She hides in these places because Bailey can’t get there, so therefore she gets a break and feels safer. Bailey cannot jump up onto the work surface because he’s simply just too big and heavy to do so. When she’s in these places she is calm and not jumpy, this is the only time she becomes a normal cat as such… or when she’s in bed.

Cleo likes to hide behind the sofa at a certain time of day for her nap. Bailey will sneak up behind the sofa and has her cornered, then all you hear is that nasty effin’ growling and hissing and he’s beating the sh*t out of her once again. What did she do wrong? nothing, she was just simply laying behind the sofa asleep. Bailey hunts for her just to beat her up.

I know that Bailey is a very demanding boy, and gets jealous. But it doesn’t give him the right to beat up his sister and make her life a living nightmare.

He pulls her fur out, he bites her and draws blood. If I have been brushing her or stoking her I have come across quite a few scabs, they are from where Bailey has bitten her in the fights.

I really don’t know what to do anymore. It’s getting ridiculous… we really need something to stop this or one will have to go if it doesn‘t stop. I cannot let Cleo live her life daily like this. It’s impossible. Of course I do not want to give up any of my pets, but if that is going to be the only solution then I may have to of course I am willing to try anything and everything first to get this to stop.

I decided to finally try and write up this thread because it happened just now. I am in my bedroom, Cleo and Bailey are having the roam of the house like they always do. They were in the bathroom (which is next to my bedroom) and all I could hear was that nasty scrapping sound. I came out to find Bailey on top of his sister biting her and all sorts. I stopped them, and Cleo just curled up scared and sad. Guess what, it was because my mum was hovering, so it was the perfect chance for Bailey to beat his sister up with no one sticking up for her or breaking it up.

Some days Cleo will have so much confidence and she tries to play with Bailey, she tries to start a PLAY fight… but Bailey wont play fight he turns it into a nasty scrap and Cleo just runs off scared and hurt. Bailey doesn’t know how to play fight like normal cats usually do. If Cleo wants to start a game with him (which now is hardly ever) he will just beat the crap out of her instead.

Cleo is such a sweet little girl, she loves us and isn’t jumpy or nervous of us, just of Bailey. She has no need to be nervous of us because we love her dearly. I am surprised she is still such a friendly cat with all that she is going through.

This may sound rather sad, but I have actually said to my mum I think Cleo feels suicidal (not literally) because she seems so scared and upset because of her brother. She has no escape… she isn’t human, she cannot tell us how she feels about it all. She has no way out… and I NEED to STOP this asap for her sake.

Please, if anyone can offer any advice at all I would really appreciate it. I really really hope I can stop this, I really do.

PS: I forgot to add. Other than all this they get on fine, I know that may sound rediculous. Cleo and Bailey do get on when this isn't happening. They can sit next to each other and lay together etc, so it isn't as if they don't like one another. This is why I am so confused, because I just don't get why he is doing this to her? They are fine together at other times... it doesn't make sense.

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I love a bit of sponge on my bob....

I would ask a homeopath to help homeopathic remedies can help
if you need help with finding one email me and I will let you know details,
there is always a dominant cat but your boy seems to be a bully

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Mazpahs Siamese & Orientals

Poor Cleo, i hope someone can offer you some good advice.

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You never own a cat unless the cat owns you!

I dont know what to suggest hun i'm afraid
I have a brother and sister (moggies) and they fight all the time too

A very sensitive situation and I felt abit sad when I was reading it

First thing you need to attempt to do as I know you have is possibilities to why he is behaving like this

I think cat disputes go deeper than what people could imagine. It could be access to owners or territory...your kitty can smell your scent on the other cat even if he didnt see you petting her etc he knows! In this situation you could reduce petting....and maybe make him feel abit mre secure so another litter tray or scratch post etc so you can then try and eliminate territorial and owner disputes. I think if you become a little bit more detached for now, I know that sounds awful then it will reduce competition etc.

Also as May suggested homeopathic remedies will help in majority of cases like this. Its been suggested on this forum many a time but Feliway is supposed to be really really good.

Could try these few things for now and see if you notice any changes?

So to breakdown incase you want to try - 1. Less petting of them both (for now), 2. Add more scratchers/litter trays etc in regards to the territorial bit, 3. Try feliway alongside also.

Hope you manage to reach a conclusion and sort this out must be upsetting for you. xx

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Bralex

Hi,

I would totally agree. I know Bailey is trying to dominate Cleo, but he is being such a bully.

As I said, it's not because they don't get along because they do. They wash each other, lay together... they can sit in the same room together, eat together etc etc. Cleo loves her brother, she wants to play with him but he just beats her up instead. He can go near her alot of the time and do nothing. But when he starts the scrap I get so angry.

Bailey gets most of the attention in this house. He is a very demanding cat, he always wants attention and affection. If he sees us giving some to Cleo he has to come over to see what you are doing and meows, so in the end we stop giving her cuddles because we know she'll get it from him later. Cleo hardly gets any love because he gets so jealous over the slightest bit of attention she gets. Cleo is a girl and we all know how female cats don't always demand too much attention... they come to you when they want some. So therefore, Cleo isn't bothered about cuddles and strokes too much. Bailey is, he will have them 24/7 if he could. He is spoilt with attention... he gets jealous over everything. If I start a game with Cleo (with one of feather string toys) he runs in the middle of the room to scare her off then plays with it. He will NOT let her play too, he has to ruin it for her every single time. He is always nicking her toys off her and ending her games almost instantly. She cannot play by herself because he ruins/stops it... she cannot play with us because he has to ruin/stop it. It's just too unfair, she isn't getting a life at the moment because he is destroying it.

If he is laying in a doorway and Cleo wants to come past to get into that room (to go to the litter tray, get a drink, food etc) he grabs her legs and bites her... she will either quickly run a way or just back up and not bother doing what it was she wanted to do.

He constantly follows her around the house, as if he wants to know what she is doing and that she isn't getting/doing anything she shouldn't. He is just too jealous of her. Even though she doesn't get as much as he does, he is still jealous of her. If she is out of the living room for too long, he HAS to go and find her, then he will beat her up. She doesn't get a moments peace from her brother. He just wants to know everything she's doing and everything she's getting.

Maybe that's what we're doing wrong. We are spoiling him so much that he gets jealous of his sister and any attention she does get/asks for. He thinks he's boss and no one has any right of our attention, only him.

This has to stop soon, I don't know how much more Cleo and the rest of us can take.

With him targeting her when we're distracted has made it worse. I have to shut the living room door behind me when I go to take the puppy out into the garden (otherwise they'll get out). I can bet you when I have come back in, their will be clumps of fur everywhere on the floor, Cleo will be hiding somewhere terrified and Bailey will be sitting there with a clump of Cleos fur in his mouth. I could have only been gone 2 minutes.

Thanks

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I love a bit of sponge on my bob....

So what do you think hun you going to try what I mentioned and see what happens? I think its worth a try? xx

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Bralex

Just a thought, would a third kitten cause more disruptions or maybe give Cleo a bit of a break? errrm worth giving a bit of thought to???

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www.freewebs.com/saynamore/

Hi everyone,

Sorry I haven't replied earlier. I haven't been on the forum since Monday!

Bailey hasn't been too bad this past week... the odd bullying going on but not as much as normal.

A friend suggested taking him to the vets to get checked first to see if anything medical could be causing him to act like this... so that's what I will be doing. (I know, I should have thought of it anyway). She also suggested "Bach's Rescue Remedy"... I haven't looked at what that is yet!

I am going to try and not give either of them as much attention (as in stroking, touching them)... so then like you suggested he can't smell our scent on her, she if it could be that causing it. As he is very jealous and dominant, it could be that he doesn't like her getting any attention etc.

So them things first. If nothing changes, I will try the remedies/feliway etc.

Oh, I wouldn't get another kitten. It could make things better for Cleo, but what if he was to bully that other kitten too? it wouldn't be fair. I think I'll leave that one... I also think I have enough fur babies as it is! lol.
I do find that when Foxy is about that he doesn't bully Cleo. He is weary of Foxy... he doesn't really like her. It's as if when Foxy's around... she's the dominant one out of the 3 and she puts him in his place.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice!!!

I'd be tempted to ask the vet to give him a Tardak injection, it sounds like his hormones are still in charge of him, you could always pen him for an hour every time he does it, you know like putting a child on the naughty step, he does sound like a very naughty child.