Are supplements required with this diet also? I don't have a problem with the supplements I would just rather not if possible.

Thank you to everyone who is helping me out here!
It is something we have been talking about for a while since seeing a site on this forum but we kinda put it to the back of our minds as we don't have the freezer space which is why I was thinking about the fresh butcher option. Now I'm wondering if it might be better to buy the meat from the internet and buy a second hand freezer to keep in the garage.

lots to think about

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Proud mum to Tiffany, Bellinda and Jessica

yes and no...

as whole carcases go into the mix then no you shouldnt need to supplement (i havent in the 8 years ive been feeding), however i do occasionally buy the organic chicks or rats from the petshop (you know the sort frozen snake food) for the cats too... yes i know this sounds shocking but its perfectly natural and holds some benefits as they are having the whole animal fur, feathers n all.

I will admit it turns my stomach watching them eat one though...


Have a look through the links it will give you an idea of what proportions of which you need to get a good balanced diet....

The advice you recieved on the beef and lamb is correct.. hwoever if you have a cat with a sensetive stomach, then lamb tends not to upset where the others will xxx

Raw diet should be suppliemented with taurine!!!!

Many owners feed raw without considering this. I have seen many a young cat die of heart related illnes due to the lack of taurine, in their raw diet.

If your feeding raw, 'muscle meats' (thigh, wings etc) are the only cuts with decent levels of taurine in them. ie. mince, chicken breast, do not contain enough taurine to keep your cats heart healthy....

There is a very fine art to feeding raw, and suggets a lot more more reading up!

You shouldn't be feeding raw just to cut costs...

I have seen alot of misguided raw feeders who have not done the research required and their cat needs to be pts......

edit: I am not totally against raw, but I strongly believe it should be done properly. It is full of pitfalls and not ALL vets recommend it. But I understand why people want to, due to bad ingredients in the commercial pet food market.

a properly balanced raw diet shouldnt need supplementing with taurine...

Muscle meat from "red fibre" muscle contains around 10 times the amount of taurine that "white fibre" muscle does.

Very simplified classification:

white fibre muscle: muscles which can tire and fatigue, chicken breast for example

red fibre muscle: muscles which do not tire but work ALL the time... heart for example,

cats should be given around 500-1000mg or taurine per 1kg of food (range depends onthe study and the source).

Now here comes the more complicated bit..

there are various values of taurine given for different cuts of meat... and every one is blinkin different! One study gives the value very low, another very high- for the same cuts of meat!! ARGH! Now until a really thorough study is completed i wont be going with either the highest or lowest values... but work on a median between the two.

What is generally accepted is that whole prey carcases such as chicks, quail, mice and rats contain ALOT more taurine than normal farmed meats.

Shellfish is also much higher in taurine so supplementing with a few prawns (mine get them as treats - we play hide and seek) would give them quite a taurine boost.

Now then... if you wish to supplement to be sure (many do, i simply prefer not to, but i am very very careful about what goes into my cats diet) you arent likely to do any harm. I prefer not to because no long term study has been completed to overdoing taurine (quite simple to do), and i am very cautious and i prefer to go the most natural way as possible. Saying that mine do get wet food occasionally too, so they have taurine in that aswell.

A study was completed with a breeding colony of cats. They were fed a very HIGH amount of taurine, and there were no adverse effects in the 4month period they tested. Not long enough for me but its enough for most.

Now... something that may interest you.. there has been some reports of one study that was completed that states that ground meat can destroy some of the nutritional values of taurine... its not yet been proven becuause they were actually measuring the compound that taurine is part of rather than the taurine itself. On that point its important your cats get plenty of RMB's, shellfish and whole prey items to avoid the need for supplementation.

cor blimey what an essay!

Anyway the jixt of it is... you dont have to supplement providing you are super careful about what your feeding to ensure the taurine levels are there. If however you have any doubt, then supplementing should do no harm and it would certainly avoid the chances of cardiomyopathy and other taurine deficient related illnesses.

Brilliant post billyboysmamma!!!!

I was just a bit concerned that 'muscle meats' and taurine weren't mentioned and the OP may not take this into consideration.

Glad you took the time to post all the details. I was too lazy ha.

Rep to ya!

Some great advise but a quick question from the UK ... where do i get taurine from and is it part of other supplements or can it be purchased on its own ... and also, how much and when?
For a male 4.3kg cat on raw food getting a good variety of all meats and bones (he LOVES the rabbit with bones, lol) how much taurine (im guessing its powder?) on his meal, what once a week? more or less?

Thanks in advance
Ant

Hiya ant

I dont use a supplement but i'm sure someone will be along who cant help (most people on here are uk based )

sorry i cant help more x

editing to say: the supplement would be daily as cats cant store taurine x

I Thought I had made it clear in my first and subsequent posts that I am considering this for the cats benefit first and foremost but with added bonus of it being cost effective. If I was only interested in cost I'd be feeding them supermarket value food which would be cheaper and much less hassle than raw!
Also I think it is evident throughout this post that advice is being taken and links followed up and I have stated I'm not about to bin the pouches immediately.

Again thank you to all for links, advice, info etc it is appreciated and I am following it all up, I love my girls more than anything and would never do anything which wasn't in their best interests and tbh I don't like the inference that I would.

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Proud mum to Tiffany, Bellinda and Jessica

I buy NOW taurine powder from here Good 4 You - naturally

One of my cats has heart failure and is on extra taurine as a supplement.

Fresh muscle meet shouldnt need supplementing with extra taurine, but freezing (and processing i.e. mincing) can deplete taurine.

My cats don't get fed supermarket food

I do not advocate that people buy supermarket value food, cheap awful rubbish. People shouldn't consider owning a pet if they are gonna feed it cheap 'white' label food.

It was you that kept going on about how much cheaper that it was gonna be!!! And plus the fact you didn't want to 'have to suppliement' (extra cost)????? I was just pointing out the pitfalls of raw feeding and educating about the importance of taurine to avoid feline heart failure, which is very common in raw fed cats!!!! Forgive me for caring....