Hi Tabbytails,

Just wanted to say don't listen to the vet on this - they have limited training in nutrition during their education and this training is often sponsored by the dry food producers. Hence the 'dry food is best for everything' approach often seen in many vets.

You're absolutely right in wanting to feed your cats something that is more biologically appropriate than dry food.

I'd say you see what the vet thinks of the food you're planning to give once you go for the first appointment. You'll quickly know if the vet feels the same way as the person you spoke with on the phone. If they do, I suggest you change vets as you could risk the vet blaming any illness that may happen to your cats on the food - which could potentially lead to the real illness being overlooked.

Re. the complete/complementary issue: If you can order food online you can get a complete food that's identical to Applaws Chicken, it's called Porta21 and is sold through Zooplus. That way all the foods you'll be feeding will be complete.

Don't worry about giving raw chicken either! Raw meat has the highest content of taurine of anything you can feed them, so a little of that won't hurt. Just don't let it replace a meal, and remember that if you want to make raw a bigger part of their diet you will need to add liver and bone to make it complete.

And, lastly I think I may have mentioned this before but if you plan on feeding dry long term (as opposed to only when they're kittens because they need food more often and you won't be home to feed them during the day) I'd suggest you get a better quality food with less carbs. Orijen and Applaws are the best I know of.

Sorry for the long post! To summarise, you're right and the vet is wrong

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understand your point hun. Im just confused about when its ok to give complimentary food, as if it alters the balance of the diet then is it ever ok to give? it must be ok at some time or everyone here wouldnt be feeding it? is bit of a minefield as I just want to make the right decisions for them, wether its the top, middle or bottom end of the food market if you see what I mean.

thank you very much for explaining and for your advice, its much appreciated and will certainly see what the vet is like when I get there then! theve been highly recommended but as you say I dont want to have health issues so heres hoping they are open to discussion!

Sorry but what utter tosh! A complete food in the eyes of a food manufacturer is based on limited research. I can go to a processor today and order a food that has all bits and bobs in it call it complete and have it on the shelves in 10 days. There is no legistlation that would stop me from doing this in the uk. Lets take Taurine as an example there is no research in the world that clearly details the level of taurine needed in a cats diet. They do know that too little causes heart issues. If you read a cat food label and it actually lists the taurine level it will be high. However, what is not said is that 80% of this level is destroyed by the cooking process.

Your diet plan was quite balanced and I would not worry about it.


If you were to fully compare the costs of feeding a quality wet against a quality dry there is little between them on a per cat per day basis.

Don't get too hung up on when to give complimentary as opposed to "complete" like all of us everything in moderation. if your diet is 80% complete and 20% complementary (inc treats) then there is nothing to worry about as nutrients are absorbed overtime. I feed mostly raw, some days my cats will get meat with bone, others without bone and others without offal. Meal, bone and offal are fundimental to a raw diet but they don't need each element at every meal. When I'm at a cat show my show cats get appalws. Two whole days on applaws to hear some people they would be at deaths door not winning in every ring!

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Karen

www.kiskasiberians.co.uk - The home of Hypoallergenic Siberian Cats


www.rawfed.com - Information on Raw Feeding

Hi there

I took my two to the Vets last week for clipping and ended up asking about diet advice (they've both got what i call bingo belly's). I've been told what i was feeding them (felix and a mixture of go-cat/hills) wasn't good for them and as they both need to lose 0.5kgs to go onto Royal Canin (my purse is already feeling the strain). The nurse pushed for a dry diet (didn't give the reasons) but my two like their wet food too much to give it up.

I get the feeling that they get kick-backs on what they sell (the smallest size dry is £16 & the pouches are about 50p each) so they push their own brands which is no doubt what they were about to suggest to you when you uttered the magic words "diet advice". I'm going to put up with it for the moment to get the weight down as i understand obesity is a problem in older cats (they are 7 next month) but i'm trying to find other sources for the same product.

I admire your willingness to stick to your guns but you may want to check out the fat content on the Whiska's if you are thinking about your own cat's bingo belly.

Sorry for the screed.

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About 30% of the price is vet profit.

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Karen

www.kiskasiberians.co.uk - The home of Hypoallergenic Siberian Cats


www.rawfed.com - Information on Raw Feeding

The OP's cats are currently fed whiskas by their owner and tabbytails is going to change this.

If you want a cat to lose weight then allowing them to graze on dry all day does not help. Reducing the amount of food they eat and feeding two or three meals a day of better quality food is the way to go.

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Karen

www.kiskasiberians.co.uk - The home of Hypoallergenic Siberian Cats


www.rawfed.com - Information on Raw Feeding

My two get half a pouch each in the morning plus part of their daily (40g) dry allowance and then the rest in the evening when i get in from work. If i leave the food out all day when i'm at work Patch will eat it all leaving none for Lucky (learn't that the hard way).

Not surprised to see the amount of kickback. Am getting the OH to do internet research for the food but the Sensitive food i've bought says "veterinary exclusive" so not much hope there then.

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Vets do not always know best when it comes to diets I'm afraid, it's not what they went to school for. Most of them do not keep themselves up to date with the facts either. They get the veterinary diet info for sales and some of them are very helpful, but not all.

The only dry diets that have shown any sign of help with dental help in my opinion are the Hills T/D diets. But they are highly fatty and should be fed in moderation. But they are not a cure all. But at the same time you must wonder what causes all this tartar! Usually it's the horrible ingredients in most commercial foods.

I would do some research and nod and smile at your vets with the diet thing for now. Get some facts, try it out. If your cats are becoming unhealthy take them back to the vets and have some blood work done. But I would just opt out of the conversation with your vet about diets for now. Eventually they will notice how healthy your cats are and you can rub their noses in it so to speak.

Please before you start to feed a varied diet or raw be sure to do your research! It's important that they have a balanced diet. Also expect to see some vomiting and diarrhea as you get started. If it persists more than 3 days you may need to re think your protein selection. Also be sure you introduce new foods gradually otherwise you will upset the digestive tract and have some runny bums. Hope this is helpful information for you. As I have read myself there are a lot of very knowledgeable raw diet feeders on here that can be of more assistance than myself in guiding you with choice of raw diet programs.

Mia

My vet didn't seem to pressurise either way as far as food is concerned. All he warned me was that sometimes the recommended quantities on the packets are an overestimate of what they really need so to watch out for excessive weight gain.

At the moment my 4 months old kitten is having a diet of primarily Hi-Life kitten pouches (or Purely when I couldn't get Hi-Life). He has either 3 pouches of Hi-Life plus a handful of dry food left out in the day, or some days I substitute 1 pouch of Hi-life for Applaws, Porta 21 (which he doesn't like so much) or plain meat/fish (eg poached haddock/coley, tinned sardines/tuna, roast chicken/lamb etc).

I only give him cat milk occasionally as a treat, usually he just has water (though seems to prefer drinking water out of my glass whenever I'm not looking than out of his bowl!)

Today I received some free samples of Whiskas, which is what he was on when I first got him. I gave him some for lunch but I think he's got too used to the better quality food because he mainly just licked off the gravy and left most of the chunks until later on when he must have been really hungry! When I give him Hi-Life or Applaws it disappears in minutes.