Pet Forums Community

Go Back   Pet Forums Community > Cat Forums > Cat Health and Nutrition

Cat Health and Nutrition Discuss topics related to the health of cats and advice on how to help treat health problems and issues including cat nutrition.

Registered users don't see this ad - Register Now (It's free!)
Like Tree48Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 09:32 AM
Pet Forums Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
markandjen is on a distinguished road
FIP advice

Hi,

I was just wondering if we could have some advice on our situation. My girlfriend and i have wanted a kitten for a while, but were concerned about it getting run over in the densely populated area we live in. After a lot of research my girlfriend found out that british blues are more likely to stay in doors a lot, chill out etc. We found a local breeder, who seemed very reputable, so purchased a gorgeous little kitten for 395.

We took him home and instantly fell in love with him and he fitted in perfectly. He had full roam of the house in his first night and chose to sleep right in between us on our bed, which he then did for every night we had him (bless). He was extremely friendly and loved cuddles more than anything, but wasnt playing around a lot, which we now know was a problem.

On his first night though we noticed he had diarrhoea, which had blood in it. this obviously concerned us so we rang the breeder the next day, who comforted us by saying it was normal for a kitten and nothing to worry about. a few weeks later we noticed his stomach was swelling a lot, so took him to the vets. they were immediately very concerned and after a couple of weeks of testing it was confirmed he had FIP. after speaking to them a lot about it , as well as the FAB, the finger of blame was firmly pointed at the breeder.

We were told we had to notify the breeder, which we did. her answer to was offer us another kitten for free! we were told by 2 different vets and the fab to never get one from her again.

after trying to prolong his life we sadly had to put him down at the weekend, which was a horrific experience. we came to love him so much and having to do that to the poor little guy was so heartbreaking.

we left it a couple of days as we were upset, but phoned the breeder last night to let her know and demand our 395 back. I know its terrible to treat a kitten like a commodity, but out of principle i felt we should be refunded. Her response was extremely disappointed and she refused to refund us, but offered us another kitten. i politely explained we have been advised not to get another one from her, but she said that advice was poor. also she wont have anymore for a year, so doesnt help us anyway! my argument was very much that her refunding us (so we can get one from elsewhere) was exactly the same to her as giving us one for free. She said though that because we had him insured it would be like "claiming on the insurance twice". this made me very angry.

Yes we have him insured for 395, however we have to pay an excess of 65, so straightaway we are not getting our money back. We then spent a small fortune on micrco chipping, vaccinations, toys, litter tray, holder, etc and we have been advised to through all this away as it could carry traces of FIP. i have read that it can be disinfected, but i dont want to ever take a risk of this hideous virus rearing its head again. We will also then need to buy this again for any new cat. On top of this we spent a lot on special food, petrol taking him to the vets loads of times, time off work unpaid (this amounts to a lot) - not to mention the huge amount of emotional distress. We have been told it is preventable from the breeders end, so we blame her. Also the fact that she offered us a replacement kitten is an admission of guilt for me, so why not refund us!

Another disturbing thing to mention is the fact that she has said she wont get the stud and queen checked for fip, she wont be notifying the owners of the other kittens and is refusing to change how she does things. She originally said she had never had any issues with FIP, but when we spoke last night she said she had never had any issues "this early"! i feel so sorry for the owners of the other litter, as ive heard its not just normally one in a litter who will have it. one kitten in particular in the little had very dodgy eyes, which i've read is a sign.

We have read you can sue breeders - In the UK, breeders can be prosecuted and risk being sued for selling FCOV infected kittens that develop FIP in cats under the Sale of Goods Act and Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act

that sounds a bit dramatic, but we just want our money back so we can give another kitten our love and to be honest i want to do it out of principle for the huge amount of distress she has caused us.

I am concerned i feel very strongly about this as i have emotional ties, so i was therefore wanting others opinions. your thoughts would be greatly appreciated

thanks

mark
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 09:49 AM
Treaclesmum's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Middlesex UK
Posts: 5,770
Treaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really nice
Re: FIP advice

Poor you, and poor kittens

I can't offer much practical advice, other than definitely don't get another kitten who seems listless, not very playful, etc, because there is usually something wrong underlying.

I know it feels as if you can bring them home and save them, but often you can't.

Are you able to trace the other people who bought kittens from her, especially the one with dodgy eyes, as they would probably have similar problems. This breeder needs reporting!!!
__________________
&
Gracie my gorgeous BSH girl


RIP Charcoal my shy girl 1987-2000, Patch the wanderer 1987-?, Tabby my darling fluffball 1988-2002 & Panda the rascal 1988-2008, Treacle my sweet gentle giant 2011-2012 taken far too young and Peaches my beautiful hamster 2011-2013 xxx
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 09:49 AM
Kyria's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 1,303
Kyria is a jewel in the roughKyria is a jewel in the roughKyria is a jewel in the roughKyria is a jewel in the rough
Re: FIP advice

Hi there,

Im so very sorry for the loss of your little kitten it must have been so heartbreaking for you.

I had alot of problems with my kitten when we first got him and I actually thought that maybe he had fip too after googling alot about it and nearly driving myself mad, he had many of the symptoms..Thankfully it wasnt fip just stomach problems and he is now doing very well.

The lady you got the kittens from sounds awful, she shouldnt be breeding, she sounds heartless. Its true about fip being caught on litter trays etc., you have to clean everything thoroughly and to be honest with you I would wait a while before getting another kitten.

Fip is sometimes caused by the kitten being very stressed too, going to a new home and neutering. Im no expert on it but read loads about it. Also multiple cats in households are more prone to it apparently. So I should think the other kittens will probably have it too its all very sad.

Your wee kitten atleast had some love and happiness in his short life from you both.

I hope when you do get another little kitten he helps with the heartbreak you feel now.

Kyria.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:11 AM
Pet Forums Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
markandjen is on a distinguished road
Re: FIP advice

hi kyria,
thanks for your kind words. i keep telling me girlfriend that he had the life of luxury when he was with us, so at least we could give him that!

glad your little kitten is ok.

we have thoroughly cleaned everywhere already, but the FAB say the virus can live for 6-8 weeks, so we will be waiting at least that long. we wont take any risks!

thanks

Last edited by markandjen; 25-07-2012 at 10:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:14 AM
Pet Forums Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
markandjen is on a distinguished road
Re: FIP advice

hi treaclesmum,

no way at all of tracking down the other owners. i think its disgusting she wont tell them! poor little guys.

unfortunately we didnt know he wasnt very playful when we got him. they were all quite scared when we visited it, so none were playful. we had to pick one then, so we went for the cutest one!

worrying her webiste looks very professional and she even has a page on FIP!!! She is on every recommended breeders list we can find, so we are trying hard to report her where we can

thanks

mark
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:21 AM
Treaclesmum's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Middlesex UK
Posts: 5,770
Treaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really niceTreaclesmum is just really nice
Re: FIP advice

You should post the link on here to her website! I have no time for so-called 'breeders' who think they can give people an unhealthy kitten!!!!!

The world needs to know who she is so they can avoid her!!!
Lulus mum likes this.
__________________
&
Gracie my gorgeous BSH girl


RIP Charcoal my shy girl 1987-2000, Patch the wanderer 1987-?, Tabby my darling fluffball 1988-2002 & Panda the rascal 1988-2008, Treacle my sweet gentle giant 2011-2012 taken far too young and Peaches my beautiful hamster 2011-2013 xxx
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:39 AM
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,461
havoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant futurehavoc has a brilliant future
Re: FIP advice

Quote:
Yes we have him insured for 395, however we have to pay an excess of 65, so straightaway we are not getting our money back
You are not entitled to betterment. It's perfectly reasonable to ask the breeder for your excess but you may not profit.

Quote:
We have read you can sue breeders - In the UK, breeders can be prosecuted and risk being sued for selling FCOV infected kittens that develop FIP in cats under the Sale of Goods Act and Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act
I can guess where you got this information from and yes, you can sue. You can sue anyone for anything but you can only sue for your actual losses - see above. The only prosecution I'm aware of was not because of FIP. It was a justified welfare case whereas FIP on it's own is not.
spid likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:51 AM
Pet Forums Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 15
markandjen is on a distinguished road
Re: FIP advice

thanks havoc, good advice.

just in missing work and expenses i think we worked out the whole event has cost us 500+ so we just want our money back. also out of principal i think she should refund us for the huge amount of distress and upset she has caused us.

She is offering us a kitten (so costing her 395), so why not just refund us instead!

with what all of this has cost us we cant afford to get another kitten, which we desperately want. When we eventually get our 330 from the insurer this will repay some of the debt.

i hate to be so money orientated about a subject like this, but we just want another kitten to give a good home to. Her refunding us would enable that and bearing in mind its her fault, i think this is the least she should do!
Cats cats cats likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:51 AM
spid's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colerne, Wiltshire
Posts: 14,051
spid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIP advice

I am very sorry for your loss.

British Blues - shouldn't be allowed to roam at all - it's not true to say they like to stay in a lot - and most reputable breeders won't sell to a house that is going to allow the cats outside. What worries me is that you say you had to get his vaccinations . . . if this was from a reputable breeder he would already have had his vaccinations and been about 12-14 weeks when he came to you. Therefore I am beginning to suspect the 'breeder' isn't reputable in this respect.

However, many of the things she says are true - kittens do often have a runny bum after the stresses of leaving home and moving. Did you keep him on the same food for at least two weeks before gradually mixing in what you wanted him to eat, I wouldn't have recommended full run of the house as that is stressful early on. Most importantly did you sign a contract? My contract states that you MUST have the kitten seen by a vet within 48hrs of bringing home in order to make sure the kitten is fine. Did you do this.

What also worries me is the fact that if he hadn't had his vacs when he got to you you could have brought the Corona Virus (from which FIP mutates) into the house on your or any other animals you may have and he contracted it there - as you say it was a few weeks before you suspected anything was wrong. The corona virus is not a killer in itself but the chances of it mutating into FIP are actually very low, stress and random bad luck are what seem to be the contributing factors. There is actually no way to prove that the breeder was at fault. ANd I think you would fail in a small claims case as you can't PROVE beyond all reasonable doubt that the breeder is at fault and that you didn't inadvertently bring the virus in to the house yourself. I would save your self the hassle.

GOing against the grain I think the breeder actually has a leg to stand on (despite not being the best breeder out there) - the kitten was accepted by you at the point of sale as healthy - sounds like you got it too early though - but . . again, you knew it's age at the point of sale, as it was too young I bet it wasn't registered either (in which case you were ripped off money wise as you could have got a full ped with proof (GCCF registration), fully vaccinated for the same price) - but . . you entered into the contract with your eyes open and i don't think you can sue for that either.

As you have insurance and are going to be claiming against it (and I know for death my insurance company didn't take the excess off when one of mine was run over) I do actually think it is immoral to be asking for the purchase price back AND claim as well - one or the other but not both - that's just profiteering. Offering another kitten is standard practise. Much as it may look like ped kittens make us breeders a fortune - it isn't true - quite often we run on a loss. Maybe she doesn't have 395 to give back to you, and as she isn't having another litter for another year I would imagine this is the case. I would ask for the excess IF the insurance company doesn't give it to you. As you say you just want your money back - it doesn;t really matter where you get that from.

As for the extras - it's your choice to decide to bin them rather than disinfecting - I don't think the breeder should pay for those either. Are you sure she didn't vaccinate before you got him? Seeing your other comments about being on the recommended breeders lists I am now wondering whether you had him done again and that's what caused the overload on his system.

I think she should inform the other owners of the possibility but they would have reported any problems now. The other kittens are very possibly absolutely fine. In order to sue her you will have to prove that she knowingly sold on kittens knowing they were unhealthy and had the corona virus - this is very, very difficult to prove. Tests are unreliable for breeders and often throw up false negatives etc.

I am surprised that you only had one visit to the breeders and had to choose there and then - and my advice is never to choose scared kittens - we always spend at least an hour with people and the kittens, that way initial shyness is overcome and the kittens basically choose the owners.

Many, many kittens get dodgy eyes to begin with, often caused by mum licking their bums and then their faces - it's not just an indication of FIP - it could be there for a number of reasons.

markandjen - I think you have been very unlucky, and I don't want to rain on your parade - FIP is a horrible disease but be sensible - don't try to get a double wammy on the money stacks, by all means report the breeder BUT make sure you have incontrovertible proof that it came for her and her only, otherwise you are going to bashing your head against a brick wall.

Next time visit the breeder more than once, don't chose a scared or lethargic kitten, take it to the vets with 48 hours of coming home, make sure it's had it's vacs before you get it.
__________________
www.finesthourcats.webs.com

also www.etsy.com/shop/MyPeapodDesigns for lovely hand knitted hats, and other stuff

Last edited by spid; 25-07-2012 at 10:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 25-07-2012, 10:56 AM
spid's Avatar
Pet Forums VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colerne, Wiltshire
Posts: 14,051
spid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond reputespid has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FIP advice

Looking on the website it says she vaccinates - if you vaccinated too that's most likely were the problem lies!
__________________
www.finesthourcats.webs.com

also www.etsy.com/shop/MyPeapodDesigns for lovely hand knitted hats, and other stuff
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Sponsored Ads


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All posts made on this forum are NOT monitored.
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:01 AM.


PetForums is part of the Pet Media group of websites including | Pets4Homes | PetsLocally


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2