Hi guys,

Just a little update today, I would have posted earlier but got the feeling I would have started ranting, I'll try my best not to now..

Gizmo is doing good, he's eating 3 meals a day, feels like he's putting some weight back on and he looks a lot happier

I got the call from the other vet in the same surgery and asked for them to have his test results available to collect tomorrow morning as I would be taking him to a different surgery. I asked the vet why sub q's had not been suggested I was told it is not something they would suggest but could arrange if the owner requested it and suggested I go in tomorrow so they could discuss it! I told her I wouldn't be taking Gizmo back there and was disgusted that they had given me no options so I could not make an informed choice as to what I could do for Gizmo.

I just can't get my head around the fact a few days ago I was told there was nothing I could do but make him comfortable and NOW (after being educated by your good selves, THANK YOU!) I am told there are things I can do! Got me so angry!

So anyway, I'll be picking up his results tomorrow and taking him to a different vet, I'll let you know what they say.

Thank you all again for your help x

It's really good to hear Gizmo is eating well as inappetence can be a problem with lots of cats with renal problems for a variety of reasons.

Whether or not he requires Sub-Qs really depends on his Creatinine levels-generally they're not necessary with lower ones but a must for more advanced cases. Based on what you've told us it does sound as if Gizmo is in the early stages though of course he may also be one of those who copes well with higher numbers. Mind you the vet did make it sound as if he was in advanced stages! However, I'd tend to ignore this dismal response! By the way, how old is he?

Glad to hear you're changing vets. I know the Yahoo group can put you in touch with a vet who'll be more proactive with the condition ( they have a list though it all depends on what's available in your area, of course ) if you request this on the forum. You really do need one who'll be onside if you're to do your best for Gizmo, which you clearly wish to do!

Good luck with it all and let us know the blood and urine results when you get them!

My dearly departed cat Tarka had renal failure and one of the vets here in Italy treated me in the same way, well, they said there was nothing wrong with him. Just because he was 16 or 17 or thereabouts, their opinion was that he was old and wasn't worth helping, never mind explaining his bloodwork to me, so I could decide!!! It was my subsequent incandescence when I found out what his results meant that made me informed and prepared for when Misi was diagnosed the same year he died (of a sinus tumour, actually...). Fortunately you've been able to take to bull by the horns right from the start and will be able to offer Gizmo the best possible chance. What the hell is "not something they would suggest" with the sub-qs???? That's the first thing they should suggest if in their opinion he'll just about struggle through until after Christmas!!! The fact that he is eating well and seems to be putting on weight suggests a) it could be a transient problem, or b) he's nothing like as bad as they say.
Like Ianthe says, as soon as you can post up his blood results for us to have a gander, the better we'll be able to see how bad he is and the best course of action. You'll want to be concentrating on BUN, creatinine, phosphorus and potassium levels.
Good for you for going bananas at the vet
Catch you later

__________________
http://catscanjump.blogspot.com

Wendy, mum to:
Simba von Wurzbachtal, Turkish Van, born Austria, 5/9/10

RIP
Tarka, 1989 - 2008 my gentle Phileas Fogg
Bruno, 2008 - 2010 taken too soon my darling boy
Misi, 1993 - 25/3/2012 My brave, beautiful tabby

Hi guys,

So I got Gizmo's results back from the vet. I don't understand them and I can't see BUN on there? So I'll post them up as I see them..

ALKP result 23.00 iu/l
ALT result 25.00 iu/l
Urea result 29.50 mmol/l
Creatinine result 560.00 umol/l
Glucose result 7.12 mmol/l
Protein result 71.00 g/l

Urine:
Specific gravity 1.016
Glucose trace
White Blood Cells ++
Protein trace

I know that his Urea and Creatinine results are high but I really don't know what this means for Gizmo. Any advice would be great.

Thank you so much x

Hi!

Thanks for this. We measure the values slightly differently here, so I had to do a conversion. BUN is the urea result. I can see that his BUN and Creatinine are really quite high and his urine is not concentrating. I've seen worse results in the crf group!!

A lot depends on him and how he responds, but certainly he'd benefit from sub-q fluids.

Sorry to post and run, but my girl's had an op today and has now recovered and is starving! I'll try and get back to you.

__________________
http://catscanjump.blogspot.com

Wendy, mum to:
Simba von Wurzbachtal, Turkish Van, born Austria, 5/9/10

RIP
Tarka, 1989 - 2008 my gentle Phileas Fogg
Bruno, 2008 - 2010 taken too soon my darling boy
Misi, 1993 - 25/3/2012 My brave, beautiful tabby

Okay, cat fed...

Looking back at Misi's results when she had a mini crash in April, her results were:
BUN 65.6 mg/dl = 23.42 mmol/L
creatinine 3.4 mg/dl = 300.56 umol/L

So her BUN was similar to Gizmo, but her creatinine was lower. Now, Misi had a major crash in September where basically her kidneys started to go into acute failure. We didn't do a blood test at that time, purely because she was so anaemic, dehydrated and ill, we could see what was happening without a blood test!!! (Treat the animal, not the numbers). Her values would have been far worse than her April results, yet she's come back from the brink, to the point where the vet thought she was well enough today to have minor surgery in her mouth.

You'll need to try Gizmo on fluids and see how he goes. It's the easiest way of bringing down the creatinine. Hopefully your vet will show you how to do it at home, how much to administer and how often. It really is very very easy to do at home, saves money and is less stressful for puss cat. I give Misi 100ml saline every other day and she seems okay on that.

__________________
http://catscanjump.blogspot.com

Wendy, mum to:
Simba von Wurzbachtal, Turkish Van, born Austria, 5/9/10

RIP
Tarka, 1989 - 2008 my gentle Phileas Fogg
Bruno, 2008 - 2010 taken too soon my darling boy
Misi, 1993 - 25/3/2012 My brave, beautiful tabby

Firstly, how old is Gizmo? Age will help to determine the likelihood of whether these results are due to acute renal failure or the more chronic type common is older cats.

Yes, a Creatinine of 560 is fairly high indeed though as Misi mentioned we both know of cats who on diagnosis presented with much higher numbers and with treatments lived to tell the tale! I'm even more suprised now that IV fluids weren't suggested by the vet! .

However, in view of Gizmo's enlarged kidney I do wonder if a kidney stone or infection is actually the cause here. Normally with CRF the kidneys are small and shrunken. It might be worth asking the vet ( I realise you've left but it would be useful to know! ) if she suspected infection since she's precribed antibiotics. If infection is the case then there's every chance once treated levels could well drop back to ( or near ) normal. Did the vets run a CBC blood panel as well? Raised white blood cells could well point to this and could explain why antibiotics were prescribed?

Since another common cause of an enlarged kidney can be a kidney stone or blood clot ( normally flushed out via IV fluids and medication at the vets ) I really would like to rule this out-an ultrasound would confirm. Obviously the sooner these possiblitites are exluded and/or if necessary treated the better so I'd make a point of asking vets about these...now!

What was the phosphorous levels? If high it's important to treat this as it can make the CRF progress faster. Another important factor is high blood pressure ( common in these cases ) again another accelerant with renal issues, so vital to treat if elevated.

ETA Just noticed white blood cells in urine sample. Yes, points to infection-urinary tract, kidneys or both

I sometimes add hot water from the kettle to the kittens food to ensure that they are getting enough water - they don't seem to drink much out of their water bowl at all.

When you say only to add a little bit of water, well is this because you don't want the kittens to fill up on the liquid and leave the food?