I took my two cats to he vets today for their annual jabs. And to get some worming tablets.
They were very overdue for their jabs a d worming..not sure how long exactly but I think the vet said they came up last year. So much hs been going on and there had been money issues but at least they've gone now and will be attending from now on as soon as needed.

Basically, they had their checkover with he stethascope, weight and gums etc etc. They said Rolo my female cat is a little overweight as she weighs the same as my male cat Muffin who is of bigger build and not overweight. He used to be and so he mustve lost some weight too recently.
The vet didn't say he had lost any but he must have cos he's gone in at the back loads over the last few weeks, sort of at his hips at the base of his back. Looks tiny there. It led me to believe something was wrong.
I read it could have been cos of worms and he has been rubbing his butt along the floor for a while sometimes,washing himself down there every time he goes to the loo and has really smelly poo.
Are these all signs of worms or gland problems? I cant see anything in the toilet. They share a litter tray, water bowl and a double bowl for food (each has his and her own assigned bowl they've established off their own backs).
Rolo doesn't seem to have any of this kind of trouble.

Anyway, my main concern is that the vet seemed to be listening to Muffins heart for quite a while and then said he's got a heart murmur.
She said I have to check his breathing every day when he's relaxed about the same time and count his breaths for 15seconds. Im sure she said if it's about 20-30 its normal but if it jumps from one day to he next to higher to bring him back in or contact them. Apart from that he's fine and needs a checkup in 6months. They re both going back in three weeks for their other jab (they had to restart the course cos they were overdue...although last time I'm sure when they were overdue before they only had to go the once when restarting it).
I will get him checked out again too then.
She didn't say it was immediate cause for concern and that cats deal with it a lot better than dogs. She didn't mention a grade though..like what stage it was in being too worried I forgot to ask.
I'm hoping it was caught early and her listening longer to him is an indication that's its only very faint so she had to really listen to name sure.
She said it's not cos he was overdue for anything but of course it would've been caught even earlier if he'd gone up when due or even shortly after. It wasn't present last time he was checked over as far as I know..the vet didn't mention it. She asked me today have I noticed any change in his behaviour but I can't really say that I have.
Both of them sometimes sigh or you can hear them breathing though their nose a bit. Muffins always had more of a squeak to his meow and deep purrs.
He's still running around chasing Rolo and eating fine etc.
He meows when he's picked up a lot but then he's always been vocal.
Rolo has the early signs of tooth decay which is a red line on her gum and yellow plaque on the surrounding teeth so I've been suggested a good dry food that doesn't just crumble but breaks all round isntead I think she said, some toothpaste and some stuff you put in their water that acts as a mouthwash type thing to slow the process Down. Apart from that she's fine but she may need a cleanup later on down the line in a few months or so. Will she need to be put under for that?
I hope muffin doesn't get it cos it'll be more dangerous for him to be put under with his murmur.

So basically yeah I'm mainly looking for support and advice on my boys heart and answer to the following questions please. Thankyou.

Is Muffin in pain with his heart?

Is there anything else that coulve caused it or that'll make it worse?

How much exercise shall I allow? They're both indoor cats and about 5ish years old and play around in the room with their toys n tube and chase esch other but mainly just sleep or sit round. Im not really sure if he's been less ative lately cos it depende on the weather etc.

I can't remember the names of the special toothpaste/dry food/water solution nd will have to check. I know theyre vet ones. Anyone else got any ideas?

I hid their worming tablet in their bowls. Muffins taken his but Rolo got wise and left it. She won't eat it with a treat or with ham. I'm going to try mixing it in with her next wet food meal in a bit but if she doesn't eat it this time any ideas on how to give it to her? Most of the powder and coating has come off it now so I dunno how much she will be getting anyway.

Is there any other reason for Muffins back end going in and looking skinny? I read it couldn't be cos of murmur or leuikimia? I'm so worried about him :,(

Ik so sorry for the long long post.
I'm also feeling really guilty cos even tho there were money issued and so much going on with myself and my husband (depression,suicdal thoughts on husbands part, anorexia on mine etc etc) there was still always money here snd there to putin the bank snd get stuff to cheer myself up. No excuse...my cats sre he most important thing in the world to me...they're my life. I can't believe I was so selfish! Espcially now I learnt of muffins condition. What if it shortens his life?! What if it couldve been prevented and if this skinny hip bum thing is something that could be serious. I love my cats more than anything and the immense guilt I feel will haunt me forever. I don't deserve them. From now on they re going to grt checked wether they need anything or not! The vet said don't leave it next time. Ppl always tell me they're indoor...we never had our cats jabs done years sgo and they lived till 15/19 and one vet on tv actually said once they get a booster done that's it for life...don't need anymore. But last time I took my cats up for muffins stomach to be checked out cos he gets a bad tunny and is sickly a lot this time of year every year for some reason they said to me no that's not true. Didn't think it was. Sorry for all the spelling mistakes. And please dont lecture me on not taking them. I domt know why I did it and I feel bad enough as it is, (I deserve it) ;,( my poor poor little babies!!

Omg could it have been caused by me shouting at him? He's always been told off for something or other but the other day I shouted loudly and he looked scared cos he tried to get out into the flat communal hall and of course being indoor cats I panicked trying to get him back in with my hands full.

I didn't want to read & run but I would say that there is no point in beating yourself up on what is done.

Firstly, LOTS of people do not vaccinate EVERY year. There is a lot of debate about this and no-one (to my knowledge) has provided a definitive answer on this one. Many people are very wary about the amount of chemicals they put into their cats and will only vaccinate every 2/3/5/8/10 years - take your pick.

I would suggest, however, that it is always worth taking the cats to the vet either once a year or every six months as they get older for a wee 'MOT' - just to keep an eye on things like heart / kidneys / thyroid etc which do start to play up as they get on in years.

Hopefully Ianthi will be along soon to give you more info on the murmer.

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How old is Rolo? Just out of interest?

His heart murmur won't cause him pain and many animals live very many years with one, often causing no symptoms, it needn't be a HUGE issue when it comes to an anesthetic either ... but vet will of course advise and take it into account

If he were my cat, I would ask vet to run some general bloods, full blood count, liver and kidneys and thyroid, to check out weight loss/condition.
I'd also ask vet if the advised any other bloods to be taken.

Finally don't blame yourself, hope all is well

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Fairy smiling, smokes cheroot ...
Simply doesn't give a hoot.

That's only one part of that particular story. A kitten needs the full course to start with and then a booster within the year. If this takes place then there is one school of thought that says the cat probably doesn't need further boosters.

For those who do wish to carry on with boosters - if a cat has had three lots of vaccine within the first year then it won't ever need to start the whole course over again even if it does go overdue. If you have the appropriate documentation to show this then don't let a vet tell you otherwise. Refer them to the FAB who's exact wording on the subject is

Scooting, or rubbing their bums across the floor, could either be worms or glands. Did the vet check the glands while they were in there anyway, or just told you to try the worming tablets first? Just concerned if you need to take them back and get charged another fee, if the vet could have had a look at the glands in the first place. It can also be a sign of a urinary tract infection.

Sooty lived with his heart murmur for years, the first time it was picked up on was when he was ten, he passed away three weeks ago from something completely unrelated. Did the vet mention blood pressure too?

How old are your kitties? Cats tend to lose muscle mass as they get older anyway, but drastic muscle mass loss can be signs of various illnesses, such as CRF. I agree with Amethyst, the vet should do a full blood work up to see what is wrong. High blood pressure, loss of muscle mass, being more vocal, and other changes in behaviour such as more urination, drinking more and eating more are both common signs of hyperthyroidism and chronic renal failure. All of these illnesses are manageable with various treatments so I sincerely don't think you have too much to worry about (easy for me to say, I know, but I've been there!). We will all be here for emotional support

Ems x

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Mummy to;

Sooty 9.6.1996 - 28.04.2011 Rest in peace my love!
Storm (Sueragdandy Phantom) 28.02.2010
Benji (Kassaro Benjamin Franklyn) 08.03.2011

Sorry to hear your news, and I know it is easy for me to say, but do not worry!

Firstly many cats (and people) with murmurs are otherwise fit & well and it does not bother them at all and they live long and enjoyable lives. The fact that he can run & play tells you he has no problems

Heart murmurs do not cause pain.

If the heart murmur did cause a problem with his cardiac function, he would show signs & symptoms of heart failure (fluid retention, weight loss, poor appetite, anaemia, poor oxygenation (going blue on lips & tongue) and shortness of breath on minimal exertion. If he did show any signs of these then take him back to the vet- there are treatments available.

The grade of the murmur is not relevant. A higher grade is louder but that does not mean it is more serious necessarily. How vets can hear any cat murmur at all above the purrs is beyond me- it is hard enough to hear some in a human!

If you have any questions then do go back to the vet and ask, they will be pleased to explain anything again. We are not vets on here (at least I do not think any members are vets?) and it is best to get advice off them- they are professionals and have seen your cat If they get complex in their answers, ask them to explain more simply as vets/ doctors/ dentists etc have a bad habit of getting over-technical and not explaining themselves clearly!

So please try and not get too upset and enjoy your cats!

Edit: just to add that he was probably born with this problem and nothing you may think you have done will have caused it. And I would let him have as much exercise as he wishes.

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http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk

Thank you all for your kind words and advice. I feel better now after reading this. I was so worried he wouldnt live long or something, however I am still very worried about his thinning at the back area. I will keep sn eye on him snd certainly ask the vet about this again and blood works etc on their next visit in three weeks time.
I shall in the meantime check his gums and breathing daily whenever he sits still for a moment.
I also read that drinking from a source other than his water bowl can be a sign of leuikimia or some other illness. He has always done this,drinking out of our cups snd jugs instead and Rolo copies him now and then.
Unless the water has been sitting in their bowl for a long time he doesn't tend to drink it a lot.
Both Muffin abd Rolo are bother and sister snd so age 5 or so roughly I think.
Are blood checks normally expensive in the uk? I just wanna make sure I can prepare for it. How do they test blood pressure on cats? D they have a cute little cuff?
Muffins glands have been checked before and I think they were emptied a bit.
A heart murmur wasnt detected at any point before today on his other checkups, even as a kitten.

As far as the vaccines go does it matter if they have the whole course started again even if they don't need it? Just to be on the safe side?it's a bit late now of course for this time as they've had most of them today with one vaccine and having another in three weeks time. Will it effect them in a bad way if they dont need it? I can't see it being an overdose on anything if they're overdue anyway.

If there are any signs for anything bad with gums or the tongue would they be noticeably blue or just tinged?
Thanks again for the kind comments. I was so afraid people might be slagging me off cow I'm so used to that kind of treatment on a reptile forum I'm a member of (when I talk about my own health issues) ppl have been so cruel judging me cos of my anorexia

No judgement here! We all fight our own battles!

Keep us posted on any updates

Oh, and as a thank you for the lovely advice and support, we demand piccies of your babies!

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Mummy to;

Sooty 9.6.1996 - 28.04.2011 Rest in peace my love!
Storm (Sueragdandy Phantom) 28.02.2010
Benji (Kassaro Benjamin Franklyn) 08.03.2011

Here are some lovely pics (most are from when they were kittens) on my website along with other animals past and present. Havnt updated this in ages.
Blackrosezoo - More kitten and cat pics