I know that a 'balanced' diet is the way to go when raw feeding, but I'm interested in being able to calculate the exact nutrient composition of all the food we feed our cats/week thus ensuring that all their nutrient needs are met.

Although it's a little over the top, I am trying to create a 'magic' spreadsheet (as opposed to Hobbs2004's magic calculator) that will enable me to do this. All's going well so far except I have my doubts on the methodology I'm using especially when it comes to day old chicks. There is always talk about how these immature birds are lacking in vital ingredients, my problem arises when I compare their calcium content to the recommended intake:

I'm using the nutrient recommendations from FEDIAF (European Pet Food Industry Federation) which states that 0.59 grams of calcium per 100g of dry matter is recommended and comparing that to a day old chick calcium content of 1.69% on a dry matter (DM) basis.

Unfortunately I think my maths is failing me as I surmise from the above that I get 1.69 grams of calcium from 100 grams of day old chick (DM). This is obviously way over the 0.59 grams that I think is recommended. Can't be right, surely.

I would love to know where I've gone wrong.

(when it comes to the actual diet, I'm obviously converting the dry matter calculation to an as-fed basis)

Golly gosh, I take my hat off to you!

Just for the record, it isn't *my* calculator but rather one I have access to. I would promote it more highly but it is in German, like so many other raw feeding calculators.

I am sure people will be eternally grateful should you eventually decide to share your spreadsheet.

Now, regarding your question. Gut instinct tells me that you are going wrong somewhere but I cannot quite put my finger on why that is. Let me have a think and get back to you.

Thank you for your reply. I have the same gut feeling

I almost wish I hadn't started this spreadsheet of mine, but I'll be darned if I'm giving up now.

I think the problem (I created) is to do with the recommended amount(RA) being on a dry matter basis when in practice, chicks are obviously given 'as-fed'. I'll try to explain my thinking:

(accepting my sources are correct)
There is 1.69g of calcium in 100g of 'dried' chick - TRUE

100g of as-fed chick (which is 25% dry matter, for arguments sake) contains only 0.42g of calcium (1/4 of 1.69) - TRUE

(this next bit is what I think I should have done)

RA of calcium for 100g of dried chick is 0.59g - TRUE

RA of calcium for 100g of as-fed chick is approx. 0.15g (0.59 divided by 4) way less than the 0.42g the as-fed contains - WRONG

RA of calcium for 100g of as-fed chick is approx. 2.36g (0.59 TIMES 4) - HOPEFULLY TRUE as more as-fed chick is needed
which makes the 0.42g of calcium in as-fed no way near enough - MUCH BETTER


I appreciate no-one else is probably interested in this but writing it has helped, although my head hurts!

Oh no, I am very interested!

Also, don't forget that the values in the FEDIAF guidelines (which are basically the same as the ones used by AAFCO) are the miminum needed for maintenance *I think*.

However, I am going to have a look through my cat nutrition book later and my raw feeding books to see what they say.

I take it you got the chick values from here: http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...al02May29.pdf?

What are the other databases that you are using for your values? The USDA one?

Let me know if there is anything I can do!


PS: How far have you got with your spreadsheet? I for one would love to see it should you ever be willing to share it!

More than happy to share.

The FEDIAF values I'm using are for an Adult cat, there are others quoted for Growth & Reproduction,


also found this, although I haven't used it:

http://dels-old.nas.edu/dels/rpt_bri...tion_final.pdf

Yes, chick values are from that document, also an older paper is at:

http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/jrr/v01...045-p00049.pdf

Obviously the USDA site doesn't include the bones eaten, and rather than going through rigorous calcs I've decided to use the info from here, although I can't find any confirmation of these values:

Raw Meaty Bones Analysis

also found this, although prefer the one above:

Wholesome Raw Frozen Foods for Dogs and Cats

As we feed, throughout the week, a mix of the following raw feed to our cats:

Chicken wings
Day old chicks
Beef chunks (human, they won't eat the ones sold for pets)
Chicken heart
Lambs heart
Turkey leg
Lamb kidney
Chicken liver
Chicken neck

I intend for the s/sheet to allow for a weekly weight for each one to be entered, with a flag to indicate whether the nutritional content reaches the recommended amount (inc. if maximums have been exceeded). I can then mix and match to my hearts content safe in the knowledge the cats are getting all they need. Sheet's a mess at the moment but I can share when it's complete.

Oh yes we also add Taurine but I have to re-assess that as was based on an earlier feeding regime of fewer raw items.

There's a post on its way, it's waiting to be approved - I guess because it contains links (too many?)

Let's hope a mod is about and it will find its way online soon!

Sorry only just got home
simon1066 - I have had to take out your first link as it came up as potentially harmful otherwise the post is fine. I suggest you have a look elsewhere for the other source of information

__________________

How we behave toward cats here below determines our status in heaven. - Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.lambchopsiamese.webs.com

Ok, I'm uploading the pdf that the link referred to, hopefully that will work.

Attached Files

FEDIAF Nutritional Guidelines - September 2008.pdf (498.6 KB, 6 views)