My 3 cats recently had a check up with their vaccinations. The 2 Burmeses' teeth were said to be in great condition (I reckon this is probably down to their love of chewing cardboard boxes, lol, they're like hamsters!)

My 7 year old tabby Raffles' teeth are beginning to show some signs of needing attention, although the vet said they aren't bad enough to have him in for a clean yet. He's never needed them doing so far, so he's not doing too badly. The vet did sell us some Hills Dental dry food, (predictable, I know!) but I only give him about half a dozen per day, because I've always preferred to feed all wet. I imagine the vet really wanted us to switch to a substantial proportion of his diet being this dental stuff for it to have any effect, but I want him to have as little dry as possible (he likes it though!).

I've read on here that raw chicken wings once a week are good for teeth cleaning. I've never fed any raw food before. Do I try and get them from the butchers' (my Dad was a butcher, pity he's retired) - and do they have to have that horrible greasy skinny bit left on the end of the wing tip, or will they do without/should I cut that bit off?

I've also just had one of them treated with antibiotics for E Coli which was found in his urine, but that should have gone now. Do raw chicken wings pose any threat of food poisoning - salmonella, etc. My dad always says that chicken is the worst meat for food poisoning - if he had any cuts or scratches on his hands and had to deal with chicken he reckoned his scratches would often get infected from it. Bet butchers have to wear surgical gloves now!

I tried cleaning his teeth with a toothbrush and cat toothpaste but he just turned into Hannibal Lecter.

Are there any health risks with the chicken wings, food poisoning, bones, etc and does it matter if they've been pre-frozen or do they have to be fresh?

I know this is a stupid worry really, unbeknown to me he's probably crunched his way through mice and things (he's the only cat that goes out occasionally, but he never brings things home) but I don't want to get it wrong and pose any health risks.

Thanks.

Good morning!

Right, raw chicken wings. Are there any risks? Like everything in life, there are. Bones can lodge themselves in the intestines and cause obstruction or they can cause internal damage. Raw poultry in particular can carry bacteria, such as salmonella and ecoli; raw meat can also carry parasites.

Re the bones - who really knows what the incidence of those obstructions or internal damage really is. Vets and animal hospitals only see the instances when things go catastrophically wrong; they don't see the number of animals who get fed bones daily or weekly without any problems.

Re the bacteria. They really are a greater concern for us humans. The digestive system in cats and dogs is not conducive to bacteria taking hold easily - for starters, everything is processed a lot more quickly than with us humans, giving it less chance to lead to a infection. So while you can read quite a number of studies that show that raw fed dogs (they tend to be studied more than cats but we can assume it is very much the same story with our feline friends) shed more bacteria in their faeces than non-raw fed dogs, it doesn't mean that these dogs are sick. However, it does mean that as a human you need to be slightly more vigilant about basic hygiene - wash your hands with hot soapy water, wash the floor down after feeding raw food, don't handle the poop directly (I ask who would!) and wash your hands after handling litter.

Interestingly, to throw this into the equation, the few studies that have been done on the actual transmission of salmonella from pet food to humans (not just the potential) hasn't focused on raw food but on dry food!

Re parasites - they are particularly an issue when you feed raw game. Easiest to freeze any game first for a couple of days (some even say weeks) before feeding.

Re the actual chicken wings - yes, it is the fatty wing tip that is the easiest for them to chew. It can be fresh or frozen. Actually, a chicken wing in my book is quite an advanced bone for a cat to eat if they haven't had much practice before as the bones are quite thick.

When you put a wing down and they just look at it with odd curiosity but don't know what to do with it, then tear some of the skin and meat loose so that they can see what is under the skin. That often does the trick. Also, don't expect them to eat the whole wing - as I said, quite big bones - but any chewing of the meat off the bone has the abrasive action to clean the teeth and the gum line.

Smaller, perhaps slightly more appropriately sized bones (that aren't as easily available as chicken wings, however) are quail, wood pigeon, poussin, chicken necks, chicken ribs, rabbit ribs. You can also get frozen one day chicks, mice, small rats etc from reptile shops.

If you are unwilling to feed bones because of whatever concerns or because your cats just don't take to it, then feeding them chunky chunks of chewy meat (beef, lamb etc) also works well.

Re brushing the teeth - you have more chance of it be a non-stressful experience if you introduce it slowly over a number of weeks or even months. There are several tried and tested approaches to help it be a success.

Hope that helps

That's brilliant, thank you so much for such a detailed answer. I am a bit worried about raw poultry - my father drilled into me over his working life how dodgy it can be - though I realise that's more from a human point of view. Having had one of them with an e-coli infection recently makes me more concerned - I've no idea where that came from.

I think I prefer to try the "chunky chunks of chewy meat" you mention. Are these fed raw as well and what size should I make them - give him a "chop" sized piece or cut it up into inch square cubes or bigger. I don't want to make them so small he can eat them without chewing.

The Burmese seem happy to stick with cardboard

BTW this website is great and I've particularly learned such a lot over the past few weeks about food. I'd been wanting to get them on a better diet for years, but the only forum I read was an American one, and all the nutritional advice concerned their brands.

Thanks to you I've got them off Hi-Life, which was the best I could do in the supermarket, but they were not keen on and regularly threw up, to a more varied diet with Grau, Bozita and Animonda Carney. Brands I never knew existed before. Suddenly they are much more interested at meal times then they were before and fortunately, they love pate! What's more only one of them has thrown up once, since we started the new food about 3 weeks ago. Throwing up and regurgitating straight after eating used to happen about 3 times a week with Hi Life

Well you learn something new everyday. I'll try mine with the chicken.

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My husband just got back from the supermarket - he asked at the meat counter and they gave him some free assorted chunks. He's got the cheek of the devil.

Anyway one sizeable piece was beef and I put that down raw for him. Raffles licked it a bit, then had a 5 minute chew at it, before losing interest. It's in the fridge, I'll try again later.

The other beef was quite a largish piece of pork, almost a small pork steak in fact. Being pork, I wasn't sure whether it was safe uncooked, so I put it in the microwave for just a minute and it came out looking cooked. Well he loved that! Although it wasn't raw, it looked tough, he was really chewing and I could see him putting his head on one side, then the other to use his back teeth, which is where the vet said he needed to clean.

The funny thing is that although he's our biggest cat, he's definitely not top cat and will immediately move away from the food bowls or off the chair if the Burmese appear and decide they're going to shift him. They came in the kitchen and he went all "feral" growled like mad at them and bonked them both on the head with his paw! They were so taken aback it was hilarious and retreated looking terribly offended. Go Raffles!

To kill most if not all of the bacteria potentially in the meat, freeze it (I think it's for 24 hours?) first, then thaw and feed.

Unfortunately, freezing doesn't kill most bacteria, though it kills parasites (though not all either). For example, freezing doesn't kill salmonella (though some strains are apparently sensitive to freezing temperature) or ecoli

Oops---sorry---parasites, not bacteria.

I had posted a question on a different US forum where we're terribly squeamish and bizarre about raw feeding: most people embrace genetically modified food and lab produced kibble with great enthusiasm, and view natural food with deep suspicion.

Some woman was claiming one bite of raw food gave her dogs worms, and I remember someone saying freezing takes care of most issues. So, the thing with bacteria, then, is that dog and cat digestive tracts aren't really affected the same as ours are?

Yes, their digestion is quicker, thus dispelling them more quickly. But apparently the stomach ph of raw fed dogs and cats is also more acidic, thereby killing bacteria that are sensitive to acid (again unfortunately not all).

Good work Jansheff! Chunky chunks in my mind are goulash size or bigger. Like bones though some cats who are not used to chewing need to build up the jaw muscles to attack them properly. In that case you can either start with smaller chunks and over time build up the size of the chunks or you can start of with thin, longish strips of meat and over time decrease the length and increase the width.

Others, like your's, just need a little additional impetus - a nice smell. Hence, why lightly searing or briefly popping it in the microwave often does the trick. The trick here is to "cook" it less and less until they are happy eating it raw.

Well done to you guys and a slap on the back to your OH who sourced you a selection of meats!