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  #1  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:11 PM
doujyr doujyr is offline
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Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

hi

still mulling over whether to take the plunge and order some ni raw minces. it's quite an expense if she doesn't like it.

my cat has crf/ckd and i'm currently feeding nature's menu, to which i add renalzin. is it still recommended to add phosphorus binders to raw food, or is the phosphorus content somehow magically harmless as it's raw?

thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:15 PM
hobbs2004 hobbs2004 is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doujyr View Post
hi

still mulling over whether to take the plunge and order some ni raw minces. it's quite an expense if she doesn't like it.

my cat has crf/ckd and i'm currently feeding nature's menu, to which i add renalzin. is it still recommended to add phosphorus binders to raw food, or is the phosphorus content somehow magically harmless as it's raw?

thanks
Does your cat have raised blood phosphate levels?
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  #3  
Old 08-03-2012, 05:51 PM
doujyr doujyr is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

i don't know i don't go to a private vet and the charity vet doesn't run extensive bloodwork, but he did suggest adding a phosphorus binder when she was first diagnosed with crf/ckd. and it's recommended on Tanya's site as phosphorus is a stressor on the kidneys. so i've been doing so, as it can't do any harm.
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:41 PM
hobbs2004 hobbs2004 is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

The reason that I am asking is that from what I know about raw and kidney disease it is fine to feed bones if the blood phosphate levels are not elevated. If they are, then one doesn't feed any bones or bonemeal but uses calcium carbonate instead to balance out the phosphorus in the food. One also ups the calcium/phosphorus ratio to be more calcium heavy. One also doesn't use things like brewer's yeast as this contains a lot of phosphorus.

So, both bones and brewer's yeast are used in the NI. Perhaps you could sign up to Tanya's CRF support group to see what they think about raw feeding and phosphate binders. Or some of the raw feeding groups that are around?

If your vet doesn't do diagnostic tests to see what is happening then how do they know (other than using some common practices) what needs to be addressed and that what is being addressed is working?
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:49 PM
hobbs2004 hobbs2004 is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

With any luck Ianthi and PP are going to hop by with their take on this.
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2012, 07:53 PM
doujyr doujyr is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

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Originally Posted by hobbs2004 View Post
If your vet doesn't do diagnostic tests to see what is happening then how do they know (other than using some common practices) what needs to be addressed and that what is being addressed is working?

a very good question! sadly i'm not in a position to afford a private vet, so i've no choice in the matter. so far it's just clinical symptoms such as weight, coat, demeanour, peeing buckets (!) and etc. besides, from what i've read there's nothing to be done to reverse crf/ckd so any more prodding and poking isn't much use.

thanks for your other thoughts. might go and ask on Tanya's group.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:01 PM
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Misi Misi is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

Well, my Misi has never had elevated phosphorus levels, even though her kidney disease is now quite advanced. She's been on raw since she was diagnosed in 2008. I mentioned a binder to the vet and she said I could try it. I have a supplement that acts partly as a binder that I add to Misi's wet food if I'm syringe-feeding her, other than that, I don't do anything. To be honest I don't know her current values because the performance she makes while having bloods taken has to be seen to be believed. It normally takes 3 people to hold her. We figure the stress at this stage just isn't worth it, so I keep her well-fed, well watered and as stress-free as possible. If your cat doesn't kick-off like that, it would be worth having a test for phosphorus levels (if there was any way that you could) before adding anything, because any drug has to be metabolised, usually through the kidneys, thus putting a strain on them, so if you don't really need it, perhaps it's best to give it a miss until you do.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:03 PM
hobbs2004 hobbs2004 is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

I am glad you saw this Misi; was just going to send the OP a vm to get them to talk to you.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:07 PM
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

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Originally Posted by hobbs2004 View Post
I am glad you saw this Misi; was just going to send the OP a vm to get them to talk to you.
Bless ya
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Wendy, guardian to:
Simba von Wurzbachtal, Turkish Van, born Vienna, Austria, 5 September 2010
Leila, rescue kitty, born Modena, Italy end of April 2012
Surya Baita della Neve (Lumi), female samoyed, born Fusine, Italy 8 April 2013

RIP
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Bruno, 2008 - 2010 taken too soon my darling boy
Misi, 1993 - 25/3/2012 My brave, beautiful tabby




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Old 09-03-2012, 04:13 PM
chillminx chillminx is offline
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Re: Phosphorus binders in raw food for CRF/CKD cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misi View Post
Well, my Misi has never had elevated phosphorus levels, even though her kidney disease is now quite advanced. She's been on raw since she was diagnosed in 2008.

Your Misi is doing very well as she was diagnosed with CRF in 2008. My vet has always reckoned an 18 month to 2 year maximum survival rate after a CRF diagnosis, and so far this has been borne out by my experience with several of my cats over the years.

I wonder whether Misi's extended survival rate has anything to do with her raw food diet, or is just a coincidence...maybe she just has good genes
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