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11-05-2009, 03:31 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
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Lauren Don't Shop Adopt! - Stop Puppy Farming Battery Farmed Dogs Campaign (Puppy Farming) |
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11-05-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
I agree, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I actually adore the oriental as a breed, you have all seemingly, completely missed my reasons for saying what I have. However, nobody has answered my question. Is there one breeder that has pure oriental lines?
The SE while being founded 14 years ago in America is a new breed to most of the rest of the world. This country, so far has had only two cats imported from the US and that was only recently, one was in kitten and produced some nice typey kittens. If any of you think they look like bengals with larger ears then may i respectfully ask you take a little more time to research the bengal. These kittens can be found on the Aalspotz website if anyone is interested. As with any new breed, type is diverse and will take several more years to develop but I'm sure (at the risk of my point being missed again) if you look back at the origins and start of the oriental, you will find great diversity of type there too, as with the bengal and any other breed in its foundation stages. We can only work with what we have here at the moment, we can't wave a magic wand (nor would i want to personally) and produce the finished product. As I said to begin with, if it's not for you thats fine but unless you see the SE as some kind of threat to your own sales, I don't understand why you felt the need to air such caustic and misinformed views so publicly. I have stated my views because this was all very one sided, if that offends you in some way perhaps you should take the time to be a little less scathing about other breeders in the future. I have defended my chosen breed as my replies have provoked you to do also, but i would not the have started a thread abusing other breeders. I wish you all well with your beautiful cats and hopefully someone can actually substantiate the attack on SE's as being mongrels when they are breeding pure orientals for 5 or 6 generations with no siamese outcrossing. |
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11-05-2009, 03:48 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
I fully agree Lauren it does take a lot of dedication and hard work to achieve the goals we are setting out to achieve and yes i am very comitted to doing my best as I know at least some of the others are. Karen does have some beautiful cats but will tell you herself she has not yet reached perfection. My main point I suppose was that SE breeders are few over here and the criticism levelled at us in recent posts was unfair. As I said in my previous post I wish you all well, genuinely but I will defend my chosen breed as anyone would against what I saw as an unfair attack
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11-05-2009, 04:12 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
You are the only person who put the word "mongrel" in a sentance with serengeti, and launched into this thread with your first post ever on this board by referring to the established breed of the incredibly beautiful oriental short hair as being "moggyish".
Take 2 established breeds, mate them together and the resulting kittens are cross breeds pure and simple, no criticism, no insult, its a fact, regardless of whether you want to give that cross breed a name. If I mated a siamese to a main coon - can I declare its a new breed Coonese - no, its a crossbreed. Come back, however many years hence with a 6 gen pedigree showing only properly registered SEs, no other breeds, then thats a breed in its own right. To answer your question, yes there are lines of pure orientals, but you miss understand the genetics of the breed if you think the fact that an oriental carries siamese makes it a variant or cross breed in any way shape or form.
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 www.saikousiameseandorientals.com "Love a lot, trust just a few and always paddle your own canoe" "Who is the greater fool - the fool themself or those that follow them" Last edited by Saikou; 11-05-2009 at 04:15 PM.. |
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11-05-2009, 04:38 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
Your aggression speaks volumes. I made my point and that was, if somebody says something derogatory about your chosen breed you will defend it fiercely as I have done mine. Any SE which is registered is a pedigree even if it is a foundation stage cat. If you have a problem with that take it up with the governing bodies. Perhaps if you had been involved in the foundation stage of the oriental, you may not have been so quick to judge another foundation stage breed. We could all take the easy route and buy in an established breed where all the hard work has been done for us, however some of us prefer to be part of the hard work. Enjoy your cats and I wish you every success both with your breeding and showing
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11-05-2009, 04:59 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
My agression is speaking VERY low volumes then!! I think you should re read your posts again to see who is agressive.
How do you know I wasn't involved at the beginning of the oriental breed ? Huge assumption seeing as you know nothing about me. Why your sudden attack and concentration on orientals as being moggies, resurrecting a thread that finished over a month ago? Why did you not focus your attack on bengals who started in a similar vein. All this stems from the fact you took exception to having a mating between a bengal and an oriental being termed as a cross breed. As for hard work in developing a breed. Yes I agree there is an awful lot. Especially if you have to outcross to a number of different breeds including moggies to work for years to develop a cat with the kind of type health and temperament envisioned at the outset. Or taken an existing breed and added hybrid vigour into a line by outcrossing then working for 15 yrs to bring that out crossed line back in as a showable pedigree! No offence, but I can not see where the hard work comes in, when you take two established breeds and mate them together. Surely the hard work has already been done by the breeders who have helped establish those breeds and not just those who developed the breed in the first instance but those that continue to work with those breeds. Where is all the hard work put in by breeders in the UK ? All the adverts for serengetis I have seen have been first generation bengal x oriental - cross breed. As I said, have your arguement years hence when you have a proper established breed with full 6 gen peds in the UK, then talk about the hard work you have put in. As far as I am aware the serengeti is not a breed recognised by the GCCF or FIFE
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www.saikousiameseandorientals.com "Love a lot, trust just a few and always paddle your own canoe" "Who is the greater fool - the fool themself or those that follow them" Last edited by Saikou; 11-05-2009 at 05:10 PM.. |
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11-05-2009, 05:01 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
HERE,HERE SAIKOUSavvyCat may i say Your carefully worded post speaks more than you think,and sadly their enlies i think part of the problem,Thankyou and also that your point was never missed just disagreed with,we all have our own minds and some with proper functioning braincells too...mine not so much,long day
 And are able to form a full and informed opinion all by ourselves,and if not agreeing with your choice of words has in anyway offended you,i can only say Please get over it,and for me you can wrap as much tinsel round a goldfish,it does not make it a xmas tree You seem to favor the words "one sided,and "attack",on what other SE breeders did that happen to,may have missed that,some of the posts i may tell you on this thread were removed and disagreeing with a firm passion and full understanding is one thing,but at least one other person on this whole thread really did spout random,made up rubbish and of course was responded to accordingly,so i for one will not apologise and stand by what i post when i was one of the people a certain other person decided to personally attack which i might add was uncalled for and by a friend of hers,now i am a big girl and can take it,i ask no-one to post on my behalf,if i have a view i stand by that view and take what comes,and once again the attacker who dished it up,has cried about getting it back and along comes a breeder on a high horse who (assuming unless told otherwise)is talking about the same person/s and appointed yourself President Defender of all thats SE,but know who your defending and what and why,again unless i am wrong,the point you think we have missed is not a point that you needed to make and imo haven't really made that well,so with that i bid you a good evening SavvyCatBtW lovin the name Savvy |
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11-05-2009, 08:10 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
My god is this post Still going on?! Everyone likes/dislikes breeds who cares? Does it really matter? Im sure there are a million more important things in the world to worry about...
 ALL breeds started somewhere with people who liked & disliked them! Most Serengeti breeders who are dedicated to the breed dont just produce 1st generations or then breed would never get anywhere! a 1st cross does not a breed make! Some like some breeds.... some dont....thats the end of it really, surely?   welcome to the board by the way Savvycat114! Do you breed Sernegetis?
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11-05-2009, 08:22 PM
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Re: siamese / oriental cats
Why did you give up on the Serengeti TB?
You used to have Bengals and Serengetis on your signature and on your website. How long did you breed them for?
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Lauren Don't Shop Adopt! - Stop Puppy Farming Battery Farmed Dogs Campaign (Puppy Farming) |
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