Free Kitten Packs? - Page 17

Kalipha · #**161** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 10:18 AM

I watch plenty of nature programs actually.

You can't compare two entirely different animals' lifespans. Lions have a longer lifespan than cats, yeah. But they also live longer in captivity than in the wild (Lion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "though a male lion may reach an age of 15 or 16 years if he manages to avoid being ousted by other males, the majority of adult males do not live to be more than 10 years old." "Lions can reach an age of over 20 years in captivity")

Who said anything about dying after the first pregnancy? I said 'after reproductive age'. A successful animal is the one that produces the most young in its lifetime. My point is that what happens after it is able to produce young is irrelavent to natural selection.

As for what makes humanity different to the rest of animals, here, I shall give you a list:

Caring for your elderly, feeding them and providing for them when they are no longer capable of fending for themselves - unnatural
Medicine, allowing an animal that got itself injured or is weak or sick to live and produce young rather than dying - unnatural
Preventing reproductions for lifestyle reasons (pill for humans, spaying your own animals) - unnatural

None of these things are BAD, there are good reasons humanity had chosen to do this, but they're not natural. There are no toothless grey muzzled lions being fed by their prides lingering on into their 20s. It just dies. A wild animal whose kidneys fail late in life and it can't process its food simply dies and as long as its body worked perfectly in its prime will have had young and passed on its 'kidneys fail late in life' genes with no penalty.

Edit: So in short, no, 'mother nature' has no different 'design' for humans than other animals, its just we have used technology to overrule the normal order of things (live, reproduce, die when old or sick). Compassion makes us care for those of our kind who are old or sick. A lion (or a cat) will simply kick out those who are a burden and let them starve, like a mother cat will refuse to feed a sick kitten knowing her energies are better spent raising her healthy kittens. Can you see a human mother doing that? It's what makes us different. I don't know about specifially better, but different. The same with our pets. In the wild an old cat will be left alone to starve. A pet cat will have its food lovingly tailored to its failing body and mushed down into easily chewed bits.

Saikou · #**162** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 11:32 AM

Of course wild animals, for the most part, live longer in captivity than in the wild as they are protected from all those dangers that a wild animal has to face. They also pretty much protected from various diseases. That still doesn't equate to what you were saying which was Mother Nature did not intend an animal to die of old age.

I have no idea why you feel the need to be so aggressive towards me, its not the first time on this thread you have gone on the attack for no apparent reason. Maybe you just like to sh!t stir provoke a response who knows. Your problem

The debate before was whether raw food was appropriate for all ages. You decide not, I disagree- end of

Kalipha · #**163** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 11:53 AM

Indeed, I was just providing the reasoning behind my opinion

Simply that the raw is a natural diet and therefore imho great, but that as we want our pets to survive into old age and beyond we sometimes need to resort to non-natural methods. I'm sorry if you think supporting my opinions counts as an 'attack'. I just think there is a place in this world for unnatural man-made diets for cats (such as when one has kidney failure) and that redproducing nature cannot cure everything, because nature is cruel and has no interest in the sick, weak or elderly.

Nature is survivial of the fittest. Which by definition means the death of the weak. If you love a sick person or cat, it's humanity vs nature.

Saikou · #**164** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalipha

I just think there is a place in this world for unnatural man-made diets for cats (such as when one has kidney failure) and that redproducing nature cannot cure everything

One could argue that fed a more natural diet, there is a reduced likelihood of the cat developing kidney disease and the other problems listed above - so man made foods could be considered a contributing factor to early onset disease - not Mother Nature. Admittedly, a natural diet can not overcome genetic weakness, but I believe can go some way to reducing the effects of those.

As for genetic weaknesses thats in our court to attempt to rectify, as those sorts of things may not be man made but are certainly contributed greatly by man with irresponsible breeding.

Kalipha · #**165** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saikou

One could argue that fed a more natural diet, there is a reduced likelihood of the cat developing kidney disease and the other problems listed above - so man made foods could be considered a contributing factor to early onset disease - not Mother Nature. Admittedly, a natural diet can not overcome genetic weakness, but I believe can go some way to reducing the effects of those.

As for genetic weaknesses thats in our court to attempt to rectify, as those sorts of things may not be man made but are certainly contributed greatly by man with irresponsible breeding.

One could indeed argue that. I'd be one of them

I agree with all of this, actually.

Feeding naturally I think reduces the chance of sickness, which is why I do it. I think some damage has been done by selective breeding, in so far as breeding for type by definition narrows a given breed's gene pool. It's just I've studied geneitcs and consensus says the majority of species have illnesses they are prone to in old age as it has proliferated in the gene pool without ever being of detriment to the animal in natural selection terms, as they either never reach old age, or reach it having reproduced already. Now that we're actually seeing our animals live to old age we are aware and breeding against late-onset illnesses in a way nature doesn't. This can only be a positive thing

I agree a natural, healthy diet will maintain a body in its prime the longest - it is preventative. However, say, continuing to feed raw to a cat who has already developed kidney failure, will probably kill it rather than cure it. Nature deals in prevention, keeping an creature healthy. Once a creature is sick nature largely washes her hands of it.

Siamese Kelly · #**166** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clare Ferris

Well im not sure I remembered you for your smiley face and I would not say we met up either, I merely stubbled across you at a cat show...take a look at my website maybe then you will remember.?
As for reading again well I cannot really be bothered to be honest, I do not like what you have said and will leave it as that. As for person S I know exactly who im referring to and I would guess her grievances with certain people are similar to mine. I have heard enough from certain people to have a fair idea of what type of person they are. Bullying comes in many forms theres the physical and the mental both of which can come at differents degress. I may have upset people by stating my profession as another poster has said certain people saw this as an oppertunity to have a go.

So I have talents why thankyou.lol.

No seriously if people are put of by my profession then I cannot be held responsible for that, that is their problem not mine. I do not see why this has to be brought up time and time again. It has been taken far to personnally by some people and its sad really.
I have made sweeping comments have I and whta exactly where these then that provoked sucha strong response from you?

LOL and triple LOL,Clare it was not me you stumbled across at a cat show dear and no stubble was to be found not on me or my fellaLMAO,i am female for all intents and purposes,that was my fella ya silly woman,BTW he acts as he finds and mostly he is a very polite man

I knew you would assume that i was he-people skills Clare-a great tool in life to have

It is not your profession that offends people,it was your generalisations

LOL,you ARE responsible for what you post and it was that and the manner that was challenged,you then seemed intent on taking up someone elses grief when you really shouldnt have since you are not in possession of any of the factsLMAOAlso i know you barley mention your profession so that did baffle me why it kept cropping up

LOL What provoked such strong responses-Hmmmm-now theres a tough one to answer-but here goes-Yrs of experience,dedication,heartache,love,passion,peopl es life dedication,true and deep passion and knowledge of breeding and there furbabies,understanding to name a few reasons, I find that you think this is SAD very SAD but again not surprising

Then to read the poo that you posted in a random effort to claim that your profession which you barley mentioned makes you far more informed and qualified to be breeding,yes Clare i can see why peoples strong responses would confuse you

Then you go on off on a tangent in a lame attempt to be hero in defending someone elses name,when you were once again challenged on this,you then whine on about bullying-i think you are and have been very mislead in your judgement,but thats your choice,in life Clare you cannot attempt to take on someone elses crap,post what you did and then whinge as if you are a victim of sorts when it comes back at you,as for opportunity to "have a go" well if you beg for apple pie,ya cant complain when ya ya get apple pie

LOL X 3,It isnt just 1 or more peeps that you would get the responses you have,post your statements on any forum or go to any cat shows and state them,i think you'll find the responses on here have been quite tame

Saikou · #**167** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalipha

However, say, continuing to feed raw to a cat who has already developed kidney failure, will probably kill it rather than cure it.

I disagree with that statement. As I said above, new thinking was that in early stages normal levels of quality was more beneficial. Its not the protein levels that are the most destructive its the levels of phosphorous.

Every cat is different, what works for some doesn't work for others. If the sad situation occured then each pet owner has to work out what they think is best for their cat. If that happens to be commercial food, fine, but equally that may prove to be a natural diet. It is incorrect to state that a natural diet for a CRF sufferer would "kill it".

Siamese Kelly · #**168** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clare Ferris

I think you have!

well I agree there are many people who do get put off by the catty comments made and the banding together of certain people who like to try and make new breeders lives hell. Oh and then theres all the back stabbing that goes on. It is certainly not a place for the weak people apparently that are easily upset. Standing up for yourself aswell brings its own problems.

Well back to the thread in question I got a diet sheet and samples of food plus two really cute bowls, vacc and m/c details and the contract ofcourse.
I think the basics is all you really need anything extra is really upto the breeder I suppose I know of one breeder whos mother knits ablanket for the kitten to go with, thats a nice gesture I think

Thinking Clare is not as good as it claims to be,i mean i would suggest it depends on the person,life is life in all aspects,standing up for yourself is one thing thats a good thing imo,but do that and know what your standing up for,standing up for someone else and taking on there grief when you have no idea what your talking about is a bit sillyLOLBit of an extreme claim that some people like to try and make new breeders lives hell-again a load of tosh,some people i think its true to say just wont sit and smilie at idiots and accept utter crap from whom ever in life or on line,i did suggest you re-read what you stated but you cant be bothered just as you cant be bothered responding yet you jump on at every opportunity to do soLOL

Milly22 · #**169** (**permalink**) 09-12-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clare Ferris

Well im not sure I remembered you for your smiley face and I would not say we met up either, I merely stubbled across you at a cat show...take a look at my website maybe then you will remember.?
As for reading again well I cannot really be bothered to be honest, I do not like what you have said and will leave it as that. As for person S I know exactly who im referring to and I would guess her grievances with certain people are similar to mine. I have heard enough from certain people to have a fair idea of what type of person they are. Bullying comes in many forms theres the physical and the mental both of which can come at differents degress. I may have upset people by stating my profession as another poster has said certain people saw this as an oppertunity to have a go.

So I have talents why thankyou.lol.

No seriously if people are put of by my profession then I cannot be held responsible for that, that is their problem not mine. I do not see why this has to be brought up time and time again. It has been taken far to personnally by some people and its sad really.
I have made sweeping comments have I and whta exactly where these then that provoked sucha strong response from you?

I just don't seem to gell/jell/gel with you.

I may be way off mark but you come across as if you think you know it all imho and you don't. No-one does.

Except Saikou but I think that is because she is a cat!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clare Ferris

What can I say I often hit an extra key when I type fast ...

Is that ok with you?

Okay I believe you.

Anyway, life to lead and all that...............

Knit one, pearl one, knit one, pearl one, knit one,.......

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