Patterns - Page 2

Milly22 · #11 (**permalink**) 15-01-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saikou

The agouti gene works the same way as any other gene. 'A' (agouti) is dominant to its recessive 'a' (non agouti) counterpart.

See, now that would make me think him being agouti (dominant) and poppy would be (recessive) as she is not agouti, that lead me to thinking that meant there would be more tabbies.

I have no idea what it means now though? Gawd too confusing.

Is there a course in this anywhere? I have been reading for weeks and only just found out that about the 2 parents from you Saikou, why does that not come up when you google it ? Can you explain the recessive bit a wee tad more Saikou ?

I shall have to have a think. I may just buy the cat I really want if I/Poppy cannot have one....from my endless pit of cat money.

She's not even in heat and still young just now anyway. I just want kittens.

Saikou · #12 (**permalink**) 15-01-2010, 11:30 AM

This is a very simplistic view of it but basics are genes come in pairs, so each parent has sets of two genes that cover colour, dilution, red series, agouti, actual tabby pattern, element of white etc.

Single genes are either dominant or recessive. Take colour for instance Black is the dominant colour denoted by B (all dominant genes are capitalised) – as it is dominant a cat only needs one of those genes in pair to "be" that colour. Chocolate – b - is recessive to black, as a recessive gene the cat needs 2 of those genes to "be" that colour. If he/she only has one then the dominant gene wins and the recessive gene colour is carried. Cinnamon or light brown b1 is recessive to both black and chocolate.

Ie BB - cat is black carries no other colours
Bb – cat is black carrying chocolate
Bb1 – cat is black carrying cinnamon
bb – cat is chocolate
bb1 – cat is chocolate carrying cinnamon
b1b1 – cat is cinnamon

Dilution genes work the same way, they come in pairs, Non dilute D is dominant over the dilute gene d.

DD – cat is a non dilute colour does not carry dilute
Dd – cat is a non dilute colour but carries dilute
dd – cat is a dilute colour.

The dilute colours are as above, black, chocolate, cinnamon. Their dilute equivalents are blue, lilac and fawn respectively.

So building up your code profile

Bb DD is a black cat carrying chocolate

Bb dd is a blue cat carrying chocolate

bb dd is a lilac cat etc

Tabby genes again work the same way. Agouti is dominant A and non agouti a is recessive and can be carried.

Again using the above

Bb DD AA is a brown (black) tabby carrying chocolate

BB dd Aa is a blue tabby carrying no other colour but carries the non agouti gene

bb Dd aa is a non tabby chocolate carrying dilute

If you build up a code profile for each parent, then you can write down the combinations the kittens could be.

spid · #13 (**permalink**) 15-01-2010, 12:04 PM

recessive and dominant; the dominant gene is dominant IN THE PAIR it is in - - if two genes turn up - one tabby and one non tabby then that cat HAS TO BE tabby (because tabby is dominant) - but there is not guarentee that the tabby gene will make it to every egg. Imagine it like a race - the boys sperm are 50% tabby and 50% not tabby - it depends who wins the race! - you could have 8 eggs lined up and all of them are fertilised by non tabby sperm.

Your girl isn't tabby so carries two non- tabby genes - anf the stud carries 1 tabby gene and one non tabby
so in laymans terms, you have four outcome
the first of Poppy's nontabby genes 'a' and a tabby gene from the male 'A' = Aa (tabby kitten)
the second of Poppy's gene's with the tabby gnene = Aa (tabby kitten)
the first of poppy's genes with the non agouti gene in the male = aa (solid kitten)
the second of poppy's genes with the non agouti gene = aa (solid kitten)

so 50% tabby , 50% non tabby - statisically speaking - reality speaking it will be pot luck

and 50% seal 50% blue.

Poppy doesn't carry seal as she is effectively a seal with a dilute modifying gene that makes her blue. When they say carrying blue - what they really mean is carrying dilute. Dilute changes seal to blue, chocolate to lilac, red to cream. IF Poppy carries chocolate, then you would still get the same colours as the stud doesn't carry chocolate.

Milly22 · #14 (**permalink**) 15-01-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saikou

This is a very simplistic view of it but basics are genes come in pairs, so each parent has sets of two genes that cover colour, dilution, red series, agouti, actual tabby pattern, element of white etc.

Single genes are either dominant or recessive. Take colour for instance Black is the dominant colour denoted by B (all dominant genes are capitalised) – as it is dominant a cat only needs one of those genes in pair to "be" that colour. Chocolate – b - is recessive to black, as a recessive gene the cat needs 2 of those genes to "be" that colour. If he/she only has one then the dominant gene wins and the recessive gene colour is carried. Cinnamon or light brown b1 is recessive to both black and chocolate.

Ie BB - cat is black carries no other colours
Bb – cat is black carrying chocolate
Bb1 – cat is black carrying cinnamon
bb – cat is chocolate
bb1 – cat is chocolate carrying cinnamon
b1b1 – cat is cinnamon

Dilution genes work the same way, they come in pairs, Non dilute D is dominant over the dilute gene d.

DD – cat is a non dilute colour does not carry dilute
Dd – cat is a non dilute colour but carries dilute
dd – cat is a dilute colour.

The dilute colours are as above, black, chocolate, cinnamon. Their dilute equivalents are blue, lilac and fawn respectively.

So building up your code profile

Bb DD is a black cat carrying chocolate

Bb dd is a blue cat carrying chocolate

bb dd is a lilac cat etc

Tabby genes again work the same way. Agouti is dominant A and non agouti a is recessive and can be carried.

Again using the above

Bb DD AA is a brown (black) tabby carrying chocolate

BB dd Aa is a blue tabby carrying no other colour but carries the non agouti gene

bb Dd aa is a non tabby chocolate carrying dilute

If you build up a code profile for each parent, then you can write down the combinations the kittens could be.

Thank you, I shall print this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spid

recessive and dominant; the dominant gene is dominant IN THE PAIR it is in - - if two genes turn up - one tabby and one non tabby then that cat HAS TO BE tabby (because tabby is dominant) - but there is not guarentee that the tabby gene will make it to every egg. Imagine it like a race - the boys sperm are 50% tabby and 50% not tabby - it depends who wins the race! - you could have 8 eggs lined up and all of them are fertilised by non tabby sperm.

Your girl isn't tabby so carries two non- tabby genes - anf the stud carries 1 tabby gene and one non tabby
so in laymans terms, you have four outcome
the first of Poppy's nontabby genes 'a' and a tabby gene from the male 'A' = Aa (tabby kitten)
the second of Poppy's gene's with the tabby gnene = Aa (tabby kitten)
the first of poppy's genes with the non agouti gene in the male = aa (solid kitten)
the second of poppy's genes with the non agouti gene = aa (solid kitten)

so 50% tabby , 50% non tabby - statisically speaking - reality speaking it will be pot luck

and 50% seal 50% blue.

Poppy doesn't carry seal as she is effectively a seal with a dilute modifying gene that makes her blue. When they say carrying blue - what they really mean is carrying dilute. Dilute changes seal to blue, chocolate to lilac, red to cream. IF Poppy carries chocolate, then you would still get the same colours as the stud doesn't carry chocolate.

Yikes so it is a hit or a miss then!

Going to print this of.

Thank you. Very useful and interesting.

Clare Ferris · #15 (**permalink**) 18-01-2010, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellie8024

i just looked it up and it seems that you will get 50/50 on both colour and patters.

Can I ask where you get your info from on colour genetics, any good sites or books etc? I need to brush up on it

Milly22 · #16 (**permalink**) 18-01-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clare Ferris

Can I ask where you get your info from on colour genetics, any good sites or books etc? I need to brush up on it

You can get colours/patterns from most websites i.e. TBRCC but genetics...phew that's something else. Best ask Spid or Saikou or there is someone else but I cannot recall her name.

I just about understand all this now btw. Thank you very much.

spid · #17 (**permalink**) 18-01-2010, 10:27 AM

My mentor is fantastic with genetics and I've learnt 90% from her and the rest from Saikou and there is still more to learn. There is a book on Amazon about it but it's expensive.

PinkPaws · #18 (**permalink**) 18-01-2010, 12:29 PM

I learnt about genetics on my animal management course and we used punnett squares. It really helped me figure it out, you could draw your own punnett squares to better understand it.
Introducing Punnett Squares
Practicing Punnett Squares

Hope that helps!

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