When I was breeding before, the kitten prices were the same whether they were active or non-active. These days, there seems to be a difference of about £100. Of course you would make that back on the very first kitten you sold so it doesn't really make sense to deliberately set out to breed unregistered cats. There are valid reasons why one might produce an unregistered litter or even several, but I can see no reason why one would set out to do so if one was starting from scratch.

However there are some breeds (Burmese are a prime example) where ti is extremely difficult to get an active registered kitten and in such cases it is understandable, if shortsighted, that someone might decide to try the back door route.

Liz

Wow. I didn't know there was a problem like that with Burmese. Certainly with the Sphynx, the Russian Blue and to some extent the Selkirk Rex some people are really fussy who they sell to. Our friends found it hellishly difficult to get Sphynx cats on the active.

I think it's wrong for breeders to close the doors on new breeders - this doesn't widen the gene pool. Look what has happened to the Ocicat - they have terrible problems with inbreeding now.

Selling them for more money ensures that the ones that are dedicated to the breed will pay for good quality kittens and will only breed with suitable cats that are going to advance the beed - or at least not send it backwards.

Where we go wrong is allowing 'pets' to go out unneutered. Contracts don't seem to work.

__________________
Beautiful Bengal Kittens from Dollycats
Beautiful Savannah Kittens from Teardrops Savannahs

My vets don't early neuter.... yet? hopefully this may change.

__________________
** Visit My Cat's Website Here **

Have you rung round other vets?

__________________
Beautiful Bengal Kittens from Dollycats
Beautiful Savannah Kittens from Teardrops Savannahs

too be honest not yet as i won't be requiring it for a long time but i will ring round at some point.

__________________
** Visit My Cat's Website Here **

Hi...where I live, it is rare to find a breeder who bothers with papers...both in dogs and cats. Just because I do not register my cats does not mean that they are any less healthy or loved! Yes, there were papers back two or three generations but they were more hassle than they were worth. Cat shows are nonexistant and most people just want pets. I raise himalayians and no they are not registered. I love my cats and they are all pets raised underfoot. I am not in it for the money (I do not charge a large amount as people around here cannot afford that) . ... I have always had cats, raising several dsh kittens on a bottle spaying then and keeping them. What little income I get from my himmys helps to pay for food, vet bills etc for all of them....including a couple from a local shelter! There is a high demand for pet himmys with people neigher wanting or caring for papers. They just want a beautiful healty kitten...which mine are. I stand behind their health...papered or not. I bought a purebred Rottweiler last summer. I have still not received papers on her. Her parents were imported from Germany and I have the litter registration number but as yet...no papers. I am not panicking about that. I have the same beautiful pet...with or without papers! With all the red tape, it is little wonder that many breeders (at least in this area) have given up on the papers. Maybe the Canadian registry is different? There are many nice people out there who raise kittens in their homes. Sure, there may be socalled backyard breeders who are unscrupulous in their dealings...but please don't put all of them in the same class.....

Attached Images

My beautiful Gabriel.jpg (39.6 KB, 2 views)

Just picking up on your point SK about why some breeders don't easily-if ever, open the door to new breeders-and allow them a girl/boy on the active, why should any breeder do this, when it's someone who isn't known and has put none of the effort in yet. As you know most breeders have worked hard to understand fully what they're doing and how and why they go down certain routes and not others to breed their chosen type of cat and also to build their reputation and for the Siamese breed at least-why would you allow any newbie-whom has come from no-where and you nor anyone else knows nothing about-when it's a real risk also that they could accidentally re-introduce bad lines,health and totally screw with what has taken generations to achieve or allow them an active girl/boy when they may not have grasped the reality's of breeding,they may not be capable with all the best will and love in the world of taking the best care of the cat and in one foul swoop can damage all your years of effort-and if someone is as serious as anyone can be about a particular breed then they will do what most worthy breeders do and earn their stripesPlus all the time,emotion and monies you lay out to ensure your cattery's health,temperament and show career=all this imo doesn't come on a please and the promise of a thankyou with a smile alone

__________________
Dogs have owners, Cats have slaves

Burnthwaites Siamese

I personally don't think that there is a problem with people breeding unregistered kitten, as long as they have purchased their cats for breeding with the respective breeders consent for that and follow the same guidelines as a registered breeder ie not selling below 13 weeks old and having the kittens fully vaccinated prior to sale.

If the kitten is healthy, vaccinated and well socialised and its pedigree is not misrepresented it makes no difference to a pet buyer that the kitten is registered or not?

I can think of a few very unscrupulous breeders mass producing sickly, inbred, poorly socialised kittens who are hiding behind a registered prefix Registration does not automatically guarantee that the breeder is good one. It should, but sadly it doesn't. Sadly it even gives a false credibility to those unscrupulous breeders.

So far I seem to have been lucky with the potential breeders that have come along. They have so far, without fail, asked if they could be mentored and guided - and they are all familiar with the breed, and the good lines, recognising well known breeders whose lines we discuss.

If I had someone come in without that attitude I would turn them away. Generally, though, the wannabe Bengal breeder is going to spend over a grand on their new kitten - so they want to do it right.

__________________
Beautiful Bengal Kittens from Dollycats
Beautiful Savannah Kittens from Teardrops Savannahs

I agree Saikou...papers do not necessarily mean quality. With no actual blood dna test taken of each and every kitten produced, there is no way to prove parantage. The breeders reputation is all the prospective buyer has to go on. Noone knows what goes on behind closed doors. I have a cousin that has purbred registerd Birmans. (The only registered breeder I know of) She had two female babies flown in and later found out that their grandfather died of a heart problem....hereditary! Now she has to wait to have the kittens tested to ensure that they are not carrying that defect. She paid big bucks for these babies. Saying that only registered cats are fit to reproduce is like saying registered guns do not kill. Here in Canada all guns must be registered....in hopes it would stop people killing with them. It did not work, registered guns still kill, and the program has all but been scrapped.
It is the friendly disposition, cleanliness and health that are most important to the people I sell to. Inbreeding has gone on in most purebreds and by allowing unregistered cats to breed a larger gene pool is created....the colour and conformation may not be perfect but to me and people in theses areas where there are no cat shows this is more than enough. In fact, our pet stores here offer mostly CROSSBRED kittens and puppies. (Puppies and kittens from two different breeds of purebreds....no papers.) They charge big bucks for these and they sell. These animals have been vet checked and are very healthy...not to mention beautiful. Our climate here is severe and like it or not sometimes cross bred animals are tougher and better able to withstand the extremes in weather that we experience. Most breeders here, raise their kittens underfoot...eg. box of kittens in the bedroom where they are well socialized and loved.....and yes, our vets care for and treat these babies like the cherished little fur people that they are....papers are not a concern or a priority. I do not inbreed or allow any outcrosses. Mine are simply Himalayians...unregistered.