Need an expert here
I can do the basics and know what to expect from matings of the 'original' Siamese colours but I'm stuck with the newer ones.
Mai Tai is blue point carrying chocolate and I usually use a lilac point stud giving me blue point carrying chocolate and lilac point kittens. I do however have the choice of two other boys and thought I might try one of them next time. One is seal point - no problem there, though I need to check whether he carries any blue or chocolate. The other boy is a caramel point and now I'm stuck as to what I can expect.
HELP ...... please

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How we behave toward cats here below determines our status in heaven. - Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.lambchopsiamese.webs.com

Can't help - but would love to know the answer!

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Red Burmese - Django 18
Oriental black - Sabella 4
Oriental Tabby - Bambi 2
Oriental chocolate silver shaded - Inca (kitten)

Forever missed - please come home
Oriental Tabby - Serafina 2

Over the bridge
Bengal - Elmo
Siamese Sealpoint - Kookai
Longhair Tabby and White - Nigel

http://www.catsofavalon.com

The Dm gene is dominant, so you only need 1 copy of it for it to be seen in dilute offspring.
However you can only 'see' it if the cat is already a dilute. A non-dilute cat (seal, choc, cinnamon) can carry the Dm gene, but you won't see any effect on the cats coat.

So it depends on wether your girl is (or carries) the dilute gene as to what colours you'll get.
If she is blue, lilac, fawn or cream you'll get caramel and apricot kittens if the boy is homozygous for the DM gene, if he's heterzygous you'll get 50/50.

If she's a non-dilute colour, you'll get no visual Dm kittens but they'll carry the gene to produce it in thier offspring.

To summerise you have 3 independant genes operating here, first the colour ( black, choc, cinnamon, red) then dilute which changes these colours to blue, lilac, fawn and cream) and the the Dilute modifyer gene ( Dm) which changes blue, lilac and fawn to caramel and cream to Apricot.

Dilute gene is recessive, Dm gene is dominant.

If its not clear feel free to ask again LOL


Emma
Purindoors Birmans

Thanks for some teaching, Emma. As we don't have the cineamons in Persians, I'd not come across it or the DM gene. I've learned my something new for today!

Think I've got it
So, my blue point girl with a caramel point stud should give me caramel point kittens. Does the fact that she also carries chocolate alter anything?

__________________

How we behave toward cats here below determines our status in heaven. - Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.lambchopsiamese.webs.com

Thank you for the info, I was unclear on Caramel too, so it is a further dilution rather than a colour? So Caramel is the colour you get from the dilute modifier and both blue or lilac?

Can someone explain how you tell Caramel from Blue? I was worried I'd have kittens that I couldn't identify the colours of. At shows Caramels look dark blue to me, but then the points darken with age so unless I had a blue and a Caramel of the same age next to each other I think I'd be lost.

Also to be sure of the colours you have bred you would need to know if the stud was Blue Caramel or Lilac Caramel - is that right? So Lymorelyn's girl carrying chocolate could produce Lilac caramel or blue caramel kittens - or am I confusing things as usual.

Genetics makes my head hurt!!!

That's what I was wondering too I have seen the stud boy and he doesn't look blue - more a dark lilac. I can find out from his owner, who also bred him but I assume he is a Lilac Caramel.
Then I look at my Rosie who is lilac point and I think she is quite dark - her parents were lilac point and caramel point so is it possible she was miss registered and is actually a caramel point? Agh .... definitely headache time
I might go for the seal point boy or just stick with the lilac boy I usually use or I can see myself registering kittens in the wrong colours

__________________

How we behave toward cats here below determines our status in heaven. - Robert A. Heinlein
http://www.lambchopsiamese.webs.com

Is the caramel blue or lilac based? what colour are his parents.....

Caramel looks sludgey and is the effect of the dilute modifier on the lilac or blue gens

To know what you will get we would need to know the base gene as you say your girl carries chocolate? It's possible if he is lilac based that you would get blues, lilacs and caramels. If he is blue based you will get blue and blue based caramels.

Im glad raggies dont have caramel...

I LOVEeeeeeeeeeee caramel Siamese though!

interesting reading!!

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I'd personally be a little wary of going down the Dm gene route as its not yet possible to DNA test for it as far as I know, so there is no concrete way of determining wether your cat carries the gene or wether it is homozygous or heterozygous for the gene.

As its not always obvious visually to tell wether your cat has the gene, especially if its not a dilute, it'd be a bit of a guessing game.

I've not worked with the Dm gene, as its not allowed in birmans in the main registeries, I'm just a genetics nut!


Emma
Purindoors Birmans