now who said they wont litter train unless in the pen with lid ... poped a tray in this morning and 1 has done a wee in it with help from me but the little black one goes over on his own and diggs and does his bussiness without help lol

Oh bless him!

Some breeders do like to pen them until they're litter trained but even then you can still get the odd accident. I've never penned any of mine and they're pretty quick to learn so long as there are plenty of trays available for them

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How we behave toward cats here below determines our status in heaven. - Robert A. Heinlein
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Isnt it such a proud moment when they use the litter tray for the first time!?!? I get such a happy feeling when the babies I have go for their first wee and poo by themselves

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Didn't say they wouldn't use the tray, rather that if they can get out of the pen (and they will if it hasn't got a lid) they may not bother to climb back in to use the tray in there, (or to hunt for another one). Its tough to climb with a full bladder/rectum, especially if you're 6 weeks old.