For those of you who breed are your cats in or out? And why did you choose either way?

And for those you buying kittens what do you prefer to see at a breeders and how your kitten will be brought up?

Mine are indoors, I Hate the thought of a cat being stuck outside in a house just with the odd visit, to me they are my kids, my babies, my family.

I decided early on that my kits will be brought up in a family home, thats how I like my kits, so thats how I bring them up. Born next to me in the living room where I spend about 6 weeks on the sofa, 2 weeks before they are born with mum until they are 4weeks old. Then they go in the nursey (where I end up spending most of my time) for litter training, once litter trained they are supervised in the house.

Ive had cats that were born outside and raised outside and they were the most horrible cats, I had to rehome them in the end, the poor cats I cant blame them they just dont know any different.

Also people who keep cats outside and only bring in when they have kittens then go back outside.

Ive had people now all over the country buy from me as they like homeraised kittens/cats indoors and I now have a waiting list, something I never thought Id have as people have seen and want a kitten brought up how I do it.

So just wondered why different breeders do different things?

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I guess it depends how and why you start off as a breeder. I've always had cats and started out simply as an owner so my cats really are my pets, some of which I happen to breed from. It does mean I have to be very careful not to over-populate the house as I don't rehome ex-breeding queens as a matter of course and so have remained a very small-time breeder.

My stud boy does live outside in a purpose built stud house designed and built by ourselves. It is heated, extremely well insulated, fully tiled for easy cleaning and equipped with all home comforts. We spend hours out there with him watching tv, listening to the radio, reading etc. and I've even spent the occasional night out there having deliberately ensured there was floor space for an human sized airbed.

That's how I do it but I'd rather see decent outdoor accommodation for the cats than an overcrowded household. I worry more when I see breeders who have only been going a few years and have far too many cats because they have expanded so quickly and without thought. Good husbandry is very important and if that means keeping cats in purpose built accommodation then I'm not against it at all.

Ohhhh I want my kittens to grow up as much as possible in the middle of the living room, lol. I want them hoover proof, electric mixer proof, whistle kettle proof and bomb proof. I understand of course that’s not always possible, and a kitten bedroom for the first few weeks is no bad idea, providing lots of time is spent with them in that room, but come 4 – 5 weeks, they must be downstairs in the heart of the home, or I am going elsewhere for my kitten. I am not into keeping cats outdoors at all and have never even done with that total ferals I have pulled off the streets.

Intact males kept the way Havoc mentions (with that level of socialization) is exactly what I am looking for … if they keep their studs very isolated… I am not buying a kitten from them.

I am very picky when it comes to buying a kitten… not on it’s show potential or it’s looks… I know zero about that stuff and couldn’t pick a top show kitten out of a nest of duds (duds for show purposes) but I am verrrryyyyy definite and very inflexible about how I want my kitten to be reared and housed, and how the queen lives the rest of year when she is not lactating. And queens kept outside is a no-no for me personally. Caged too…. I cannot believe that in this day and age some breeders still cage their queens or keep them shut off in one bedroom.

I am more lenient on how studs are kept as I realize they can’t wander around the heart of the home, but not that lenient that a stud is stuck in a heated garage and not looked at apart from feeding watering and litter changes. A breeder meets all my standards or I go elsewhere, simple as that. And cats kept outdoors is just not my thing.

I know quite a few feline foster mums who keep foster cats in heated outdoor runs…. I won’t knock it… it is probably a better fate than death on the streets or put to sleep…. But I could never do it. Nope, I am simply not a fan of cats kept outdoors.

All the stuff havoc says about overcrowding, that goes for me too. If they're overcrowded.... byeeee, I am off to look for another better breeder.

Hi,

I have five cats that all live in with us part of the family, two neuters and three breeding girls. Our house is on three floors, so unless it is feeding time, they are pretty spread out and you would never know we had five cats.

I must say this is my first year of breeding but most of my enquiries I've had do ask if the cats are kept outside and people are generally relieved to hear they are not. A couple of potential enquirers had both had pedigree cats who were raised in outside pens in the past and they had socialisation issues.

However I do think there are breeders (and I have been to their homes) that have excellent outside facilities and their cats have a lot of attention on a daily basis and are well socialised and kittens are born in the home. Also, their cats do not tend to be kept as breeding cats for long, but are re-homed after a period to pet homes. For obvious reasons, studs do generally reside outside and yet some of the most loving cats I've met in this hobby are the studs!

I am afraid that yes, even in this day and age, there is still a need to separate at times. I did keep my queen in the lounge with her litter for a while before moving them downstairs, but this was not be to cruel in anyway but to prevent her from moving them all over the house (two flights of stairs in our house) whilst we were out, which could have resulted in death or injury to the kittens. Whilst in the lounge they had the TV on, scratch post, endless toys, hoovering to contend with and a multitude of eager visitors each day (us and family/friends). Trust me they didn't suffer!! The kittens I had this year were bombproof and even jumped on the hoover! lol

Totally agree with this!

I know I am at my limit with five cats inside, my husband just wouldn't entertain more than that as we do have friends visiting/staying quite a bit and we have to have a balance between our hobby and our own social life!

My stud lives outside in a purpose built run which is attached to the "girls side" so he has company during the day and doesn't get lonely. My girls live indoors during the night but have access to the girls run during the day along with my neuters. All girls stay indoors 100% from 5 weeks pregnant to after weaning and don't seem to miss going out to the run. Kittens are born in the livingroom and remain in there til 4 weeks old, then move through into the kitchen with mum. Mum has free run of the house but as we have a large house, I'm paranoid about "losing" a kitten if they had free run. 14 rooms is a hell of a lot of searching if one went a "walk about" lol.

Absolutely, I agree. My cats are, first and foremost, pets. They are 'people' I want to share my life with, even if it means picking the odd fur out of my coffee (as I'm doing right now ). I obviously don't mean that I think they're little humans, because I don't, but I do love their individual personalities and I can't imagine a house with cats where a spontaneous game of catch or fetch isn't possible, and where a warm spot on a recently vacated chair isn't instantly filled.

Obviously I haven't started breeding yet, but I have seen many breeders' set-ups, and I have a very clear idea on how I intend to keep my cats.

I know that I too will be a small-scale breeder, because I will always have my cats in my home and, in order to accomplish and explore what I want to as a breeder, I'm going to be in this long-term, rather than large-scale.

I can't see myself re-homing a breeding queen unless she makes it clear that, for what ever reason, she doesn't want to be in my home. If there was no way to work through it, I would make sure she had a lovely, happy family home, rather than keep her in comparative isolation until she had had a few litters, regardless of the genetic and financial investment in my breeding programme that I would be losing out on by having to buy in another queen. That's a loss I think you have to be prepared to take as a breeder, if your cats come first.

The stud cat does pose a moral dilemma, and I would convert my home before I built an isolated outdoor run down at the bottom of the garden. Stud pants are marvellous inventions IMHO, for allowing your boy to be part of the family and have normal interactions with you and your other cats for a few hours every day, or putting queens away in one section of the house for a few hours to let your stud run around out with your neuters for a bit is also an option. Cages, runs and kitten rooms are tools to make breeding more manageable, but I personally couldn't condone their long-term use, day-in and day-out.

I do think havoc has an extremely important point about caging being preferable to over-crowding, but I really don't think that either is ideal or 'best breeding practice', and, although I try not to condemn breeders who do choose to use outdoor runs, I will not buy kittens from them, nor sell them my kittens.

Okay, tact off: I don't care how nice your runs are, cats deserve to be a part of family life, and they should not be caged. Domesticated cats, especially pedigree cats, have been selectively bred to be part of our lives and crave human attention. They absolutely do not have the space to run around properly, exhibit and enjoy natural behaviours and be real cats in a few square meters.

I have spent alot of time and effort in creating fanatastic outdoor accomadation,and my cats all have outdoor living areas, they are all heated and all have there own indoor rooms, so although it is outdoors they still have the comforts of home life.

They get probably more attention than the average house cat,as I do this for a living,I have an office outside,and I leave for work like anybody else,it just so happens my work is at the bottom of my garden, and my job is feline related(not just breeding).

So from 6.00am, til 9.00pm I am out there,I take my lunch,have a coffee machine etc.

My day is solely dedicated to the cats,grooming,feeding,cleaning,playing my favourite part may I say.

When my kittens are born they spend the first 3 weeks with Mum in privacy,only I am allowed in to see them daily and handle them this is to ensure no infections are picked up etc,once they find their feet and are beginning to explore etc they are then brought into my home with Mum and are home raised as any other kitten would be My family consist of My eldest son Calvin18 and his girlfriend 19, my son harry 10 and my son luke 8.And kelly my wife.

Raising kittens is very much a family affair,and you find luke and harry rushing home from school to play with them.All the family have different jobs,and different start times and finish times so you always have someone coming and going,and 9 times out of 10 the first thing that happens is cuddles for the kittens,its not long before they understand the sound of the front door opening and come running,

I believe in kittens raised within the home and socialised correctly,make better pets,it goes without saying,but I have heard as Tje has of breeders saying they are home raised but the truth is they are often confined to one room and have the minimum of interaction.

Regardless of whether cats are kept indoors or outdoors,I am more concerned with how the welfare of the cats are,are they loved are they well maintained,do they have adequate facillities etc.

I too have a waiting list and my customers,often comment on how professional my accomadation etc looks and how happy my cats are.

It is important to understand when breeding there is no right and wrong when it comes to breeding in terms of outdoor/indoor providing you cater for the cats needs. it is really just personal preferance,and where one person will buy and say I dont like the cats to be outdoors,and prefer to see them lying around your home, Another might think breeding in your home is unprofessional and see it as someone making a bit of extra cash even though you have probably spent more than you made.

In my opinion the most important part of breeding is to create healthy,well socialised kittens,from well adjusted,socialised parents, cat/kitten welfare should be at the top of your priority list no matter how much it costs,if you want your cats outside invest in building them the best accomadation you can,if they are indoors give them freedom to wander your home.

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http://www.funkyfurballs.co.uk

Well I'm with you 100% there. There's no such thing as a perfect breeder so I try to be tolerant of different methods but where I want my kittens to go is a whole different ball game

You call that “tact off” sheesh… you should see me when I go into that mode , lol.

Jokes aside, I strongly agree with you. I could hardly bear to put my cats in that kind of “small bottom of the garden” type accommodation if I went off on a fortnight’s holiday. To think my cats would have to live that way… never ever in a million years!

I can speak fairly knowledgeably on how cats don’t thrive well kept isolated in a bedroom (let alone a bottom of the garden run!) I do after all foster, and adult fosters are unknown quantities health wise and must be kept isolated from my own cats. But my kitten/foster room is also my (and my husband’s) office, and I work from home 4-5 days per week and hubby about 2-3 days per week. I also strongly encourage some neighbourhood kids and kids from friends family to pop in for a hour or two as often as they can to just chill/play/socialize with the fosters. I have neighbours & friends who pop in once or twice a week just to groom or fuss with fosters. And just other small “get them out that one room” measures like…. I love to soak for an hour or so every night before bed in a bath…. So at that point I shut the door at the top of the stairs so my own cats stay downstairs, and then the foster can come out of “his” room and have a slightly widened horizon of the upstairs hall and the bathroom and can spend some quality one-on-one time with me while I lie in the bath.

This setup I have is still far from ideal though. OK, for fosters it’ll have to do. Would I ever buy a kitten kept this way, or kittens from a queen reared and kept in a manner like my foster set up? No, absolutely not.

Beggars can’t be choosers in the rescue world… we make do with the limited resources we have.

No way am I “making do” when it comes to the breeders I select to buy my own cats or kittens from. And I would strongly encourage everyone to be as picky and choosey and demanding as I am. Buyers have the power to control the standards breeders adhere to. If no one ever bought “reared at the bottom of the garden” peds, the habit would die out soon enough.

I am not a snob, lol, well not with anything else in life, I’m a very down to earth “canny” Scot at heart… but I am a terrible raging snob when it comes to how my own cats (and their parents) are reared and kept. I would even go as far as to say I think it’s my moral duty to be so highly critical and selective about breeders.

ohhh Havoc, I am soooo with you there too!!!! If a breeder didn't vet me critically enough.... tata, I'm off. I have even been known to be devious in the past and not mention that I foster, and just generally do a dumb-blond-not-very-well-versed-with-cats act just to see how a breeder reacts, what help & support they offer, if any, how they react to a totally inexpereinced owner. My breeder friend and I (best of life long friends now) but we met this way, lol, me doing my dumb blond act and her being like a mother hen thinking "could I ever let a kitten of mine live with someone this thick". You are VERY right to be VERY selective of where your kittens go to... moral duty, is a 2-way street, lol.