I do understand where you are coming from Sallly-anne, if this forum had been around 2 years ago, and this thread had come up, I would have posted exactly the same things as you, they are barbaric, should never be used, only used by people who want to inflict pain, people too ignorant to understand the emotions of the dog, and that all problem given time can be cured by clicking and treating for good behaviour and ignoring the bad, and they are just looking for a quick fix, I truely believed this, and would have argued the case.

A lot of things have happened in the last two years, the first time I was present when I knew an e-collar was to be used, I went and hid in my car, not wanting any part of it, I didn't want to see it, I had seen the dog arrive and its behaviour around the other dogs there, barking, growling, lunging, snapping, a young GSD bitch, she was scared of them and was using aggression to make them go away, it usually worked for her.

After five minutes in the car I had to get out, having a natrually inquisitive mind, especially where dog training and behaviour was concerned. I saw a dog, who was walking past the other dogs wagging its tail in a low relaxed manner, being praised and rewarded for its new behaviour, five minutes later it was sniffing and saying hello to the other dogs. She had been trying to do it the other way for a year, attending classes staying on the outskirts, rewarding for good behaviour, which was fine until the dog got withinn 100 metres of another dog, she was told she needed to continue training the dog as it had no obedience, and needed a job to do in life.

This and many other events like it have changed my views, I saw on that day a nervous aggressive dog arrive, it was in last chance saloon, before the final needle, and what I saw leave was amazing, she competes with the dog now, both owner and dog have a much better life, and more importantly the dog still has a life.