Okay no arguing. My parents raised two kids and over a long period of time our family consisted of: -

1. a Pembrokeshire Corgi Duke, the first dog I remember.
2. a Dalmation Peggy.
3. a long coated Border Collie Shep, the first dog my son remembers.
4. a long coated Border Collie Leiba.

I have owned

1. two Jack Russells Sam and Tim
2. and now a Saffordshire Bull Terrier Duke.

The point I am making is we have owned a wide variety of breeds. We are dog lovers who feel our family is incomplete without a dog, we are by no means experts.

We have never needed to cause pain to any of our dogs. My father wouldn't even allow a choke chain in the house. He believed the dogs fur would get trapped and he wasn't convinced it would release. My father was firm but fair with us and our dogs. They knew their place and we knew ours.

A potential problem should be dealt with instantly to prevent an unacceptable habit forming.

Lets put it another way, children that have never had set boundaries who now have behaviour problems do we electrocute them too, actually that's not a bad idea he! he! only joking.

Sue