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Re: Training tips or advice on walking a strong dog
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Originally Posted by goodvic2
I am not dismissing trainers, but I think it is far easier for owners to take a dog to a training class rather than apply the principles of leadership. Leadership is about being consistant 100% of the time and being the boss. I do have to say, that this is not applicable to most of the people on this forum, becuase everybody here is absolutely dedicated to their dogs. But there is a lack of information of this way of being with your dogs. "Training" is readily available while talk of the pack theory/dominance is not. Some might argue that that if I was correct then it would be the other way around. Who knows......
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Hang on in a previous post you were saying that it's all about respect and a dog will only follow you if they respect you, so this is about leadership, and you were stressing the importance of this.
I on the other hand am saying that the two go hand in hand, you need to establish leadership by controlling resources/activities (not through dominance), AND you need to train the dog.
If you focus on the OP's problem of large strong lab pulling on leash, then in my opinion the approach of establishing leadership AND training, is a practical approach. Of course the OP can go to group training classes, but I would recommend she makes sure the trainer uses positive methods, leash corrections etc. simply aren't necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvic2
You talk about positive training methods, whilst I agree that this is fine for your average dog. If you have a dog with serious behavioural issues, then I feel that another approach is needed.
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This is where I disagree and is unfortunately the mistake many dog owners and indeed certain trainers make. A dog with behaviour problems should not be subjected to harsh or punitive methods. For example if a dog displays fear aggression then the last thing you want to do is pop or jerk the leash everytime another dog is present or approaching, this just says to the dog "hey I was right, the presence of other dogs makes bad things happen."
What you do want to do it take the dog through a behaviour modification program by applying desensitisation and counter conditiniong, using both classical conditioning and operant conditioning. By doing this the fear aggressive dog will eventually see other dogs as predictors of good things. Yes, it takes time, consistency, patience, there is no quick fix, but I'd rather have this outcome.
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Originally Posted by goodvic2
Example. My problem dog Max has, from day 1 tried to fight with the dog next door, through the fence. I openly admit, that I created this problem by not addressing it correctly from day 1 ( I knew nothing about dog psychology and this is part of the reason why I try to assist others). I have tried almost everything at this fence, including working with a behaviourist who has used positive methods. Because of the intensity he gets to, if the dog is the other side, absolutely nothing works. I got a new rescue in January, Sammy, who I actually got to try to help my guys. The only thing that can stop Max from doing this, is Sammy. When he gets out of control , Sammy goes to the fence and nudges him away, if Max does not listen, then Sammy will bite him and then Max moves. This is what I mean by working with "what the dog knows". This is how they deal with each other and in my opinion, if you work with their psychology and not our own, then you have more success.
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But this does not help change Max's behaviour, he will still display aggression right. So this approach just distracts him, but doesn't change his emotional response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvic2
I think respect is used in all species. If you look at how dogs behave in the park. Some are totally disrespectful to others, they charge and bark, whilst a respectful dog will approach in a calmer manner and go through the greeting ritual.
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Unfortunately many dogs are under-socialised and therefore lack social skills, they don't mean to be rude, but they simply never learned social skills. But again this is something that can be trained, and clicker training is a wonderul way of doing this for such dogs.
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Originally Posted by goodvic2
If somebody had given me the sort of advice on how to be the boss/pack leader, when I got my first 2 greek rescue dogs. I would never have ended up with the problems I have had and still do on occasions. There is no positive training you can give when you take on these sorts of dogs, who are so frightened of everything and everyone. What they needed from day 1 was for me to step up to the plate and show them I was the boss and I would take care of them. Instead I gave affection, I felt sorry for them and I brought every book on training, which did not help. I could barely touch them for the first few weeks. If I had had an understanding of dog psychology I would have realised that I was doing it all wrong.
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Positive training methods would work for your dogs, but you would first need to change your mindset and beliefs about what it is dogs need from us humans. In a sense your belief in dominance/pack theory is holding you back.
So I guess on many posts we will just have to agree to disagree. 
You might find it interesting to read these two blogs, both have fearful reactive dogs, and they have made great progress with their dogs using positive methods.
Boulder Dog » Blog Archive » Magic “Touch” for Fearful Dogs
Working with a fearful, scared or shy dog
I have suggested these because 90% of dogs display aggression because of fear
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvic2
This is why I am so passionate about this subject and if I can stop one person making the same mistakes I did, then it is worth it.
Your posts are always very informative and helpful to people, I just have a totally different perspective on it.  |
Apologies to OP for going off topic |