Im sorry Mazer but i know what you mean, ours are not much better than that we are at our wits end, with them, the puppies classes didnt do any good at all, they tried clicker training at one we went to , then i had one to one for them no differance,, but they do not like strangers or dogs at all i am at a loss what to do next, they pull me over too, even if i only have one out, my vet dosent really want to treat them as they are so over excitable, had lots of sheps never had any like this before.