I went to fit a job with my husband the other day ,the lady bred dogs.She had a number of dogs in a enclosure i went to see them i noticed that they had collars with black boxes attatched to them.As i was stroking one the lady said "oh,im trying out those bio-flow magnetic collars,because my dogs are old and have joint problems"i knew that these wernt them!!as i stroked them i felt under the black box and there were two metal spikes going into the fur!!obviously e-collars!so why the lie???If people believe in them and use them why deny it!!is it cos they know they shouldnt?