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Old 31-12-2009, 02:25 PM
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Lightbulb Re: human-selection and dom-dogs genetic change

Quote:
re burrowZig -
...So dogs have evolved into the myriad forms we see now...

hey, ziggy! :--)

i did not get that impression whilst reading it -
and for myself, i would refer to *evolving* only when it was not directed by humans.
the selection-pressure on dom-dogs by ppl has been increasingly heavy, with much of it over the past 500 years,
and the past 300 years culminated in the *eugenics* rooted push for purebreds and appearances, breed-type, and form,
vs the previous several centuries where functional and behavioral type, not breed type, was the desired end.

a herding-type dog has a fairly broad range of similar behavioral characters, and can have a number of coats, colors, etc;
a show-lines BC and a working-lines BC are rapidly differentiating due to human selection, which i would not call evolution;
evolution selects for fitness. (shrug) humans do not.

a Laekenois + Malinois look superficially different, but can be born siblings; however a BC and a Pumi look nothing alike,
but share defining behavioral characteristics - which clearly designate them both as herding types.

the mastiff-family is a huge group of breeds and types, but again they share behavioral similarities, as well as broad similarities in appearance.

as a general rule...
the more modern a breed is, the more they have generally suffered from human-interference and become exaggerated; U cannot tell me that a Neo, with their profoundly-mashed face, drooping flews and haws, excessive wrinkle, stenotic nares + sinuses, massively over-developed frame and often poor joints, is as healthy a breed as the Spanish Mastiff, which is far more traditional and often still a working breed, not a consumer statement...
like a Ferrari in the driveway, a Neo is one of the breeds that says, *i have arrived - i have $$ to spend on appearances; no safe, long-lived, functional Volvos for me, baby... i want flash! *

some of the behavioral changes have been to a breeds distinct detriment - we now have Malinois who are so hot-to-trot and manic, they can only be described as neurotic, and hunting-lines Labs who are so driven and needy of interaction and activity, that they are impossible in pet-homes.
a hunting-lines Lab and a pet-lines Lab may look very much alike, but behaviorally they might as well be different species.

selection that focuses on ONE trait is especially damaging - phrases like *a head breed* make me wince; if the only thing U look at to evaluate a prospective dam or stud is from the neck-up, bad outcomes are assured.

Industrial-Ag made the development of super-lean pigs a priority; they got the super-lean pigs they wanted, but the animals were behavioral train-wrecks - neurotic, obsessive, with an incredibly low threshold for startle and emotional trauma; they bit one anothers tails off, could not relax and gain weight and grow, but agitated themselves and others by constant pointless activity.
dog-breeders should take good heed of that Ag-Biz debacle, i think - we are in danger of doing similar things across multiple breeds, and some breeds have already gotten there, IMO.

the eejits currently breeding fighting-dogs are among the most flagrant examples of stoopid selection toward a single trait -
these fools BRAG that they have dams who must be separated from their litters 4 to 5 weeks after whelping, as they may attack their pups; some separate by sexes as well, to save the smaller Fs from early scarring by the slightly-larger Ms.
old-fashioned dogmen of the 1890s thru the 1930s would be appalled; they were well-aware of the key importance of temperament, and they bragged that their fighting-dogs could be walked down the street off-leash, or even be attacked by another dog and not react, if there was no genuine threat to their safety.
that was the era of the White Gentleman, the Engl-Bull-Terrier - then best known for a happy, clownish demeanor, their love of children and rough and tumble play, and stoically tolerant of snippy dogs or pushy pups.
that long-suffering tolerance has gone by the wayside, in many cases; they are still playful, resilient and muleheaded, but not so easygoing.


exaggeration IMO is not a healthy thing, in physical-form or behavior.
all my best,
--- terry
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*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
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Last edited by leashedForLife; 31-12-2009 at 06:41 PM.. Reason: speling, LOL...
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